ASHLEY BROMPTON: Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us on 
our webinar today. My name is Ashley Brompton with the Center on 
Victimization and Safety at the Vera Institute of Justice. I would 
like to welcome you to today's webinar. 

We are pleased to bring you this webinar as part of our 2020 End Abuse 
of People with Disabilities webinar series, and welcome to Zoom. We 
are so excited to have our first End Abuse webinar on Zoom today. We 
do ask that you bear with us as we go through growing pains with a new 
platform. 

We are going to try to smooth this process up as much as we can over 
the next few webinars. But please just bear with us while we're going 
through some of that, figuring out what the best way to do this for 
our audience is. But we so appreciate you coming today. 

We have a few quick logistical things to go over before we begin the 
session today. Today, we will have American Sign Language 
interpretation, Spanish language--

OLGA TRUJILLO: Uh-oh. 

[KEYBOARD KEYS CLICKING] 

OK, so Ashley is a little frozen right now. And so I know Ashley was 
going to talk about the fact that we have Spanish language 
interpretation as well. Oh, there's Ashley again. Hi, Ashley. [LAUGHS] 

ASHLEY BROMPTON: Sorry about that. I am back. I apologize for that 
disruption. As we all know, more than ever, technology is a challenge. 
I want to make sure that we didn't miss anything. So I'm going to 
backtrack just a tiny little bit. 

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Q&A. 

Please note we will be making interpreter switches at the 20-minute 
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We value complete access during our webinars. This means we want to 
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If we experience a technical challenge, we will work to resolve it as 
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enter it in the Q&A pod. Again, the Q&A is the easiest way to make 
sure that presenters and myself don't lose questions. 

We are recording today's webinar. The webinar recording and materials 
will be posted on our End Abuse of People with Disabilities website 
within two weeks. You should have received an email today reminding 
you about this session. In that email, it should have also included a 


link to materials. That link to materials would include a PDF copy of 
the PowerPoint, as well as a record of attendance for today's session. 

You can download those at anytime by clicking on that link in that 
email. We're also going to put the link in the chat. But please note 
that the links in the chat are not clickable. So please go back to 
that reminder email that you should have gotten from Zoom. 

And to make sure that you are able to access the materials, we will 
also put that link in the follow-up email that you're going to get 
from Zoom. So if you didn't see it in your reminder, you should see it 
in the follow-up email that you're going to get from Zoom as well. And 
again, that will include a copy of the PowerPoint today and the record 
of attendance for this session. 

Our presenters today are Olga Trujillo and Kelly Israel. Olga Trujillo 
is an attorney, speaker, and author who, in 1993, was diagnosed with 
dissociative identity disorder. Her experience over the past 30 years 
has been an attorney for the US Department of Justice and a consultant 
to many local, state, and national organizations. 

She is the co-founder of Latinos United for Peace and Equity, a 
national nonprofit that provides training and technical assistance to 
help enhance services and responses to survivors of gender-based 
violence. Olga is an internationally sought speaker and author and is 
featured in the video A Survivor's Story, a documentary and training 
video based on her personal experience of violence. 

Her memoir, The Sum of My Parts, was released by New Harbinger 
Publications in October 2011. It has been translated into Japanese, 
Chinese, and Spanish. Olga is one of only a handful of people in the 
United States that speaks and trains internationally on dissociative 
identity disorder from a lived experience. 

Kelly Israel is a policy analyst at the Autistic Self-Advocacy 
Network's national office. She works to advance the legal, 
legislative, and administrative policy objectives of ASAN. She is a 
graduate of American University Washington College of Law and served 
as student attorney in its disability rights clinic. 

In that capacity, she was legal counsel for clients with disabilities 
in a wide variety of cases, including special education and Americans 
with Disabilities Act reasonable accommodation issues. She also worked 
for other public interest organizations on issues such as the death 
penalty and guardianship in the United States. Her chief interests are 
in the education of children with disabilities, supported decision 
making as a viable alternative to guardianship, and the 
overcriminalization of people with developmental disabilities. 

Before I pass it over to Olga and Kelly, I want to share a little 


context with you for this webinar today. As we were working on our 
response to COVID-19, we realized that we needed to think about both 
individual and systemic advocacy strategies and tools and resources 
that advocates and people with disabilities can use to ensure that 
they're able to receive access to services, particularly health care 
services, during this time. 

So in thinking about individual advocacy and systems-based larger 
advocacy, we reached out to Olga and Kelly to talk about different 
pieces of what that might look like and to provide tools and resources 
for you as advocates and for people with disabilities to ensure access 
to services and health care. 

We think that this webinar is going to hopefully provide you with some 
tips and tricks and resources that you can use and some advocacy 
points that you can use when you're dealing with situations that are 
coming up for your clients with disabilities during this time. 

I'm going to first turn it over to Olga, and she is going to talk a 
little bit about individual advocacy. And then we are going to pass it 
over to Kelly for the second half of the presentation. And with that, 
I am going to turn it over to you, Olga. 

OLGA TRUJILLO: Thanks so much, Ashley. And thanks, everyone, for being 
here. I'm really excited to be here. I'm also really excited to hear 
your presentation, Kelly. It's super interesting to me. OK, so Ashley 
is going to be advancing the slides. So I will ask her to periodically 
as I go through my presentation. 

So we're going to talk about strategies for directly supporting 
survivors with disabilities during COVID-19. And then let's move to 
the next slide, Ashley. So before I go into my slides, I wanted to 
give you a little bit of context about where this kind of information 
is coming from. 

So as Ashley noted in my introduction, I was diagnosed with 
dissociative identity disorder, also known as DID, in 1993. And if 
you've never heard of it, in the past, it was called multiple 
personality disorder. And at the time, I went to see-- I went to see a 
really amazing clinician and did a tremendous amount of work on this. 

And so the PowerPoint and the presentation that I'm about to do is 
from a lived experience of DID and a lot of other co-occurring 
conditions like anxiety disorder, but all mental health-based 
disabilities. And so I'm going to walk you through my experience of 
it. 

Because what I've learned over the past few years is that my 
experience of it might be because I have DID, but other people have to 
do similar things with the disabilities that they work with each day. 


So, OK. So that's a little bit about me and DID. And also, if you have 
any questions about the disorder in particular, I'm really, really 
happy to answer them. 

OK. So when we're talking about COVID-19 and we're talking about 
people with disabilities, there's one thing that I've noticed across 
the board, and I've experienced myself, which is this health crisis 
and the economic crisis that came with it and all the ways in which 
people are addressing it or not addressing it is challenging our 
coping strategies. 

And so I wanted to go into a little bit about the coping strategies 
that a lot of people employ. And when I say-- I'll just say a little 
bit tongue in cheek, but not tongue in cheek at the same time, when I 
use "our," "we," and "us," I'm not talking necessarily about myself 
but about people with disabilities. So I'm including myself into it, 
but I just wanted you to know because we're talking-- because I have 
DID that I'm not referring to myself in a plural sense. 

OK, so there are strategies that we employ each day that help us move 
through the day and help us move through the world. And those 
strategies that I've learned to rely on for over 25 years are similar 
strategies to what other people with other cognitive disabilities and 
mental health disabilities also do. 

So one of the big things is creating routine. And it's a huge asset 
because when you're doing-- if you have a certain routine, then when 
you're having a hard time, that routine is very comforting. And you 
can go through the motions of getting up each day and doing the things 
that you normally do. There is calmness and a sense of peace in a 
routine. 

The other thing that I learned to do was to limit stimulation. And 
that can be like a little bit of everything. It can be how much is 
going on at the same time, which is a big thing for me. So I'm not a 
multitasker. I try really hard to focus on what I'm doing when I'm 
doing it. 

I can pay attention to and actually have to pay attention to what's 
going on around me, which is why the more that's going on in front of 
me makes life really difficult. And that's true for a lot of people 
with mental health issues. So limiting how much you're doing and 
taking in really helps with that constant assessing. 

So for me, I'm constantly assessing for safety. It's my routine. It's 
my every day, and it has been since I was a kid. And so the more that 
I'm-- the less that I'm sleeping, the worse that I'm eating, the more 
that I'm stressed, the harder it is to take all that in. So limiting 
stimulation really helps with that. 


So I manage how much is going on around me. And I'm pretty good at it 
now so I don't even notice it anymore. But right now, that's a little 
bit different. Like, routines are a little bit different, and 
stimulation is a little bit different. So let's move to the next 
slide. 

So managing tasks and schedules and not multitasking is like an 
everyday kind of thing. One of the best things that I've learned about 
myself and, in turn, other people that have experienced trauma and 
other mental health issues is that predictability is everything. Like, 
knowing what to expect makes things so much easier, and all these 
things kind of play into each other. 

So you can see how learning what to expect and having things be 
predictable would be really hard right now because things are very 
uncertain. So that's going to kind of kick up-- it's really hard to 
have that as a coping strategy right now when things are so 
unpredictable. And then the changing conditions, constantly changing 
conditions are creating challenges for me and a lot of other people 
that have benefited from the predictability, the routine, the limited 
stimulations. 

OK so let's move on to the next one then. So the consequences of these 
changes means that many of us are experiencing a lot more stress. And 
sometimes the stress isn't so much because our lives have changed so 
much but because of the uncertainty. 

Or in other cases, there is no way to have that same routine. And so 
then it creates a level of stress that's really hard to describe to 
people because everything seems OK, but that routine that provided you 
comfort is no longer there. So it can be really stressful and 
disruptive. 

I've also noticed that, in my own experience and other people with 
disabilities, that it kind of creates chaos in our lives. And for me, 
it's mostly in my thoughts. It's very chaotic because it's kicked up a 
lot of the DID symptoms. And let me stop there for a second while we 
do an interpreter change. 

Awesome. OK, so for me, there's a lot of noise basically going on in 
my head right now because all my coping-- all my coping strategies are 
really challenged right now. And so because I've had, like, basically 
30 years or so of doing this kind of management work to get through my 
days, I'm better able to manage things and kind of stabilize and 
center myself. 

But it really is one of the most difficult challenges that I've had in 
that period of time, and I imagine for other people as well. It 
challenges our ability to think, our ability to relax. It creates all 
kinds of fear and worry. And in some cases, the fear then kicks up 


that response in the brain that kicks in the fight, flight, or freeze. 
And then we're constantly heightened. 

So let's move to the next slide then. And on top of that is it's 
kicking up for a lot of people anxiety and panic. And it's leaving us 
feeling exhausted, unfocused, at times manic. A lot of people that 
I've been talking to-- I do a lot of peer support. So a lot of people 
that I've been talking to have been talking about being caught up in a 
loop of irritability, distrust, and tension. And it makes it hard to 
get up each day and get through our day. 

And then a lot of people who have a dissociative disorder like I have 
or other trauma disorders are noticing more heightened dissociation, 
meaning that they're distancing themselves from their daily 
experiences. They're pulling away and just going through the motions 
of their-- of whatever it is that they're doing and not tracking it. 
And that's an instinctive-- that's an instinctive response to being 
overwhelmed, that your brain just kind of kicks in and does that. 

So let's move to the next slide then. So there's a lot of things that 
you can do as advocates to help people who might be struggling in the 
way that I'm struggling. And again, a lot of the things that I'm 
talking about are things that I'm helping people, in terms of the 
people that I help, with with peer support and also that people close 
to me are helping me with. 

So the first thing is have a conversation with the person who you're 
working with. So have a conversation with the survivor who might be 
struggling right now, and ask them how you can help. So hear from them 
first. If they're caught in a place where it's really hard for them to 
articulate what it is that they need, then these are some ideas of how 
you can help. And these are things that you can ask them about and 
then get their input. 

So first thing is helping them and supporting them in regaining a new 
routine, because it's not going to be the same routine. A new routine 
is going to be really big. So by doing that, you want to have a 
conversation with them about what their routine looked like before, 
what their life is right now, and how you can create a routine for 
them now. 

It'll take them a little bit to be able to get that routine in place 
so that it provides comfort again. And then see what aspects of the 
previous routine can you build back in. So I'll give you an example. I 
get up each morning, and I feed our dogs. I let them go out first to 
pee. And then I feed them, and then I get myself a cup of coffee, and 
I go back to bed, and I check my emails. That's something that I can 
keep doing. 

And it's a really nice way to kind of start the day in a slow, 


centering way. So if someone has a routine that's like that, where 
they get up in the morning, they take a shower, or they get up in the 
morning and they get a cup of coffee, like anything early in the day 
that you can keep in place will be really helpful for setting their 
day in a kind of safe and stable manner. 

The other thing is to be patient with people and with survivors in 
particular as we settle into routine. It's going to be disruptive. 
We're going to be frustrated. We're going to withdraw at times. We're 
going to struggle. So be patient, and remind us to be patient with 
ourselves, that this is hard for everyone and that this is just what 
it looks like for you at this time. 

Help us as we figure out how to comply with new requirements. So the 
social distancing requirements, the wearing masks requirements, it can 
be a bit overwhelming when-- and then I live in Wisconsin where the 
state was asking us to stay home. But then the Supreme Court ruled 
that we don't have to stay home. So there's a lot of confusion by 
county by county and city by city what the requirements are. 

So helping us figure out how we comply with them and also figuring out 
whether they're possible for us. For some people, they can't wear a 
mask. Some people, it's really, really triggering to have something 
over your nose and mouth. And so coming up with strategies that may 
help them still get what they need at the same time as not violating 
some of the requirements that we have in our areas. 

Going to the grocery store is an incredibly challenging thing for me. 
And I've managed to do it really well over the past. It's been a 
challenge again, in part because there's new lanes-- one-way lanes and 
stuff that at the time at the grocery store can be a little 
overwhelming for me. So having those conversations about the specific 
aspects of what someone needs to do and how you can help and how the 
things-- how changes might have taken place. 

So for example, what I ended up doing because it was so stressful is 
in my small town of about 500 people, we have a grocery store that 
allows people to order online and then go, and they'll put the stuff 
in your car and then go home. And that's been really helpful for me. 
It's also a little bit inconvenient because if they don't have stuff, 
they want to substitute things that maybe you don't want or you just 
don't get some of the things that you feel like you need. 

But these are really helpful things to just kind of think about and 
walk through with someone and have a conversation with them. And then 
you want to do this kind of carefully too because it can be 
overwhelming to have too many details and try to figure out too much 
at a time. So do this slow in terms of what are the kinds of things 
they're worried about and how you might be able to help them plan for 
it. 


So let's move to the next slide. Another thing-- oh, yeah, so this 
is-- so help us plan and create predictability at a time of great 
uncertainty. So this has been a really huge issue for me. And if 
you've heard me on any other webinars, I've been talking about this 
the whole time, which is the health care issue. And that's why I'm 
really excited about Kelly's presentation. 

But first is, like-- so help us plan and create predictability around 
personal care, meaning things that we really need to get done. Like, 
OK, we need food. If we are able to work, how we're going to be able 
to do that. The basic necessities of life. So kind of place-- like, 
kind of parse this out. 

I, at times, need my partner, who is really amazing, to help me figure 
out how to focus some days and help me prioritize what my day might 
look like on days where I'm really struggling and then also a lot of 
times to just say it's OK that I'm struggling, and I don't have to be 
perfect. So those are some things that you might be able to do with 
someone who's struggling in this way. 

Around the health care issue, help people to plan. If they get sick 
right now, how are they going to address going to the hospital or 
going-- or contacting their doctor? And have them plan if they can 
contract the coronavirus and get COVID-19, how will they approach 
getting care for it? 

It's a really important conversation to have. And I developed a 
resource that the National Resource Center for Reaching Victims has on 
their website. And it's basically the process under which I developed 
a plan. Anyway, so I'll give you that. And it's very, very detailed 
that'll enable-- it'll give you some help in having this conversation 
with folks. 

In the beginning, it might be really, really stressful for someone to 
think about this. So give them some time to kind of just think about 
it. But having some predictability about how this will go is really 
helpful for folks. And then have a plan in place for quarantining if 
someone gets sick. So what will they do if they get sick or someone in 
their household gets sick? What kind of configuration do they have to 
be able to stay safe? It's a really important one. 

OK, so then let's move to the next slide. The other ways in which you 
can help folks is around some of the financial issues that are coming 
up for people. So we've had to apply for unemployment insurance in 
Wisconsin because my partner's business, it's the kind of business 
that you need to have people be able to gather in person to do. 

And I'm a lawyer, and I think I'm pretty smart. And the unemployment 
insurance forms and process is extremely confusing. So if you know 


someone who is a survivor who's having some challenges, you might want 
to walk them-- walk through that with them and help them think that 
through. 

Again, helping people focus to be able to work, helping them plan 
their work in chunks of time if they can and, again, getting food. 
Those are all really important ways that you can help someone at this 
point just kind of get through their day. And as people do this over 
and over and over again, they're creating a new routine. And again, 
these are conversations that would take time to have with someone. 
Don't do it all at once, and be open for them to come back to you. 

So let's move to the next one. OK, so one is remember we are super 
capable and functioning people. And usually, I have a slide here with 
Mr. Incredible from the animated film The Incredibles because we are 
really pretty amazing that we get through our lives on a daily basis 
and make incredible contributions to the world. 

So it's good-- it's easy, though, to forget that when you're 
struggling. And this kind of crisis, people that never struggle are 
struggling. So there's no shame in that. And in fact, it's really 
awesome if you can catch yourself early enough and center yourself and 
ask for help. I found that that's actually brought people a lot closer 
to me. I think they get a better sense of who I am as a person. 

We might do things differently than other people do, but we're still 
here, and we're still doing it. And that's really important. We're all 
going to do things a little bit differently. When I talk about DID at 
conferences with other people with DID, my process and my journey has 
been way different than a lot of other people, and they're all good. 

And then again, help and support us with that in mind, that we are 
super capable and functioning people, that we might do things 
differently, and we're still here doing it. So, OK, I think this might 
be my last slide, but I'm not sure. Do I have one more? Oh, here we 
go. 

So support us. Oh, yeah, so this is really important. So support us 
because it's really easy to get caught up in the fear and be worried. 
So there are a lot of things that I'm worried about right now that I 
cannot control. And so I try really hard to let that stuff go. 

I can't control who runs our governments. I can't control whether 
other people wear masks. I can't control other people's interpretation 
to what's going on, right? Those are all things that I'm worried 
about. But I can control whether I have a plan or not about how I move 
forward. I can control asking for help to do that. I can control 
trying to get groceries, those kind of basic things. 

So I try to focus on the things that I can and let go of the things 


that I can't. And that's an important thing to help people kind of 
maintain some stability in their life and limit some of the chaos and 
also some of the overstimulation. 

Support us in our planning over what we can control. And again, the 
health care piece is really big right now. And remind us that we don't 
have to be perfect. And remember that we're not going to be perfect. 
So I had this conversation with my partner today. This is kind of a 
hard day. 

And I'll just say for a lot of people that have experienced trauma, 
this place right now that we're in where some of the country is in 
place and not really supposed to be out and other parts of the country 
are out, there's a match for trauma in the past. 

And I've talked to quite a few people that are struggling with this. 
So this is the time where it's good to remember that we're not 
perfect, and we're not going to be perfect. And it's a good thing to 
help us be kind to ourselves when we're not. 

OK, so next slide. Oh, yeah. And this is another resource that the 
National Resource Center for Reaching Victims has on their website. 
Grounding techniques are really, really helpful. So what happens a lot 
of times is the fear or anxiety or anger builds up in someone, and 
then we might do this instinctive kind of dissociation. Or we might 
get triggered and have flashbacks or just kind of go away. 

And helping someone to come back to the present and be in their body 
is really helpful. And grounding techniques are real simple. It's 
helping someone by taking breaths in slowly to help ground their--
slow down their breathing and deepen their breathing helps with panic 
responses. 

Then helping people to sense themselves back in their body. So meaning 
like when someone-- let's say someone is sitting in a chair. And 
talking to them about what they can see or what they can feel is 
really important. So the things that they might be able to feel is 
parts of their body in the chair. 

So asking questions about, can they feel their hands on the arms of 
the chair? Can they feel their back against the back of a chair? Can 
they move their head from side to side? Those are things that can be 
helpful, the things that someone can see. 

And if it's a person that can't see, the things that they can hear 
that are going on around them. That brings them back into their 
surroundings. So that's a really good technique to use to help us stay 
grounded in times of high stress, fear, and anxiety. I've been doing 
this a lot for myself, and my partner has been helping me with it as 
well. 


OK, let's move to the next slide then. All right, so I hope that-- I 
kept thinking, I think that's the end of my slides. It is the end of 
my slides. So we're now going to listen to Kelly Israel. I hope that 
those tips for helping someone who might be struggling right now, I 
hope they're helpful. And then Kelly's going to talk to us about some 
of the policy work that she's been doing. So I'm going to turn this 
over to you now, Kelly. 

KELLY ISRAEL: Has the interpreter switch taken place? Got it. OK, 
thank you for the introduction there earlier. As stated earlier, my 
name is Kelly Israel, and I'm a policy analyst at the Autistic Self-
Advocacy Network. 

Now I notice the discussion on me talked a lot about me but not a 
whole lot about ASAN. So I am going to explain it. ASAN or the 
Autistic Self-Advocacy Network is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit advocacy 
organization created by and for autistic people ourselves. That means 
that everybody at our organization, especially right now, is autistic 
themselves. And we are advocating for autistic people. 

In short, we are an all autistic disability rights organization 
advocating for the self-determination and civil rights of autistic 
people at the local, state, and national level. As you might expect, 
we have, like all other disability rights organizations, become deeply 
committed to ensuring that the toll the COVID-19 is taking on disabled 
lives is known and the rights of people with disabilities during this 
horrific pandemic are respected. 

So let's get right into it. Turn the slide. It is absolutely critical 
that people with disabilities, our caregivers, our friends, and 
advocates of all kinds be provided with accessible information 
COVID-19 and equally accessible resources on how to fight and-- fight 
for and advocate for our health rights during this pandemic. 

People with disabilities-- and whether we're called high-risk 
populations, the most vulnerable, whatever, that is referring to us--
we are disproportionately likely to get infected with COVID-19 and 
disproportionately likely to die from it. Like, I'm running ASAN's 
COVID-19 tracker right now, which you can find on our website. 

And long story short, even if people with disabilities and staff 
members get COVID-19 in equal numbers in the same setting, guess who's 
more likely to die from it? Us, people with disabilities. Many of us 
do get COVID-19 and have to be hospitalized are also losing access to 
critical medically necessary services and supports. And we're cut off 
from the support networks that help us understand the health care 
decisions we need to make. 

Many people with IDD need their supporters, their friends, and their 


family members present so that they can have critical decisions in 
health care settings explained to them. But we are being deprived of 
access to those supporters, access to connect to our communication 
needs, auxiliary aids, services, et cetera. 

Next slide. Nonetheless, as always, our needs during the pandemic are 
being neglected. One, there is very, very little cognitively and 
physically accessible information out there on what COVID-19 is, what 
to do to stop yourself from getting it, and how to fight for your 
rights. 

For the record, physically accessible means things like screen reader 
accessible for blind and visually-impaired people or closed captioning 
or transcripts for the deaf and hard of hearing. Cognitively 
accessible means that the average person with an intellectual 
disability or a person who doesn't speak English very well can 
probably read or understand what you've written or said. This usually 
means offering accompanying graphics and other visual aids, as well as 
creating a version of your text that's at a fourth or fifth grade 
reading level. 

Two, state and local advocates-- that's many of you on this call--
often lack critical information, tools, and resources that may be 
utilized to defend your clients and constituents, i.e. what to do when 
someone's denied access to a supporter at the hospital, what to tell 
their clients or other people they are supporting, how to stand up for 
the health rights of your clients and constituents, and the advocacy 
tools you can use to do that. 

But you know what? That information is out there. People with 
disabilities, lawyers, advocates, family members, caregivers, and 
concerned citizens have all been hard at work producing it. There are 
advocacy tools, resources, a legal knowledge base, and disability 
accessible resources that you can use to defend the people you support 
and maybe even yourself. 

So I'll be spending most of my presentation introducing you to some of 
the tools and resources out there that you may not have heard of. If 
you have a copy of the PowerPoint, you can click any hyperlink listed 
in there to get access to the resource immediately. Switch slide. 

OK, the first set of resources I'd like to talk about today is 
resources that explain the COVID-19 pandemic in plain language. People 
with intellectual and developmental disabilities-- for short, people 
with IDD like me and many others-- and other cognitive disabilities 
must understand what COVID-19 is, how it is transmitted, how to 
protect against it, and how to protect themselves. 

We can't just be left in the dark. Because if we don't have access to 
that kind of information, we're pretty likely to make a lot of 


mistakes, like underestimating the severity and importance of social 
distancing, fail to acquire basic personal protective equipment, fail 
to wash our hands and clean ourselves regularly and clean the house 
regularly. 

So we have to have access to plain language resources on COVID-19. So 
what's plain language? The short version is that plain language is a 
governmental and policy standard for simple writing. Simple writing 
helps people with cognitive disabilities understand what's going on. 
Most of the time, you really don't need to use big words or 
complicated conceptual concepts to understand what something is. 

We use big words out of habit instead. We're encouraged to use the 
full breadth of our vocabulary, and that makes it really hard for 
people with intellectual and developmental disabilities to understand 
what's going on. So the federal government, via the Plain Writing Act 
of 2010, created standards for plain language writing that the whole 
federal government has to adhere to. 

You could-- and frankly, we recommend you do-- also use a standard 
called Easy Read, which is an even simpler language style with 
accompanying pictures. So to give you an example of what Easy Read 
looks like, all of ASAN's major tool kits on its website are in Easy 
Read. 

So let's provide you with some existing plain language resources for 
people for intellectual and developmental disabilities on COVID-19. 
For example, as you can see on this slide, ASAN produced a plain 
language video on COVID-19 that you can access from the slide. It 
describes with accompanying pictures what COVID-19 is, how it's 
transmitted, and what you need to do to protect yourself in the 
simplest language possible, with visuals to help direct. Change slide. 

Green Mountain Self-Advocates and ASAN together produced a 
comprehensive guide to the coronavirus pandemic for self-advocates, 
which, again, you can access on-- it's on the accompanying slide. We 
often refer to people with IDD and people for intellectual 
disabilities and people with developmental disabilities-- people for 
mental health disabilities do this, too-- we often refer to ourselves 
as self-advocates, hence the name of the guide. 

The guide covers a diverse variety of topics, including what the 
coronavirus is and how to protect yourself from it in simple language. 
We're going to come back to this guide later in the presentation 
because there's also some other important stuff it covers. Change 
slide. 

So of course, people with cognitive disabilities and their advocates 
and caregivers aren't the only folks who are really concerned about 
the knowledge base of people of disabilities around COVID-19. In fact, 


a number of disability rights organizations have released instructive 
guides for the people they serve or their caregivers on COVID-19. As 
you can see-- oh, I'm sorry. 

Let me repeat a bit. In fact, a number of disability rights 
organizations have released instructive guides for the people they 
serve or their caregivers on COVID-19. As you can see, for example, 
there's a National Down Syndrome Society Q&A on COVID-19. And there's 
a wheelchair and assistive technology precautions resource on COVID-19 
as well. And there's even the Spina Bifida Association's guide to 
COVID-19 and spina bifida. 

You can find a lot of these resources on the American Academy of 
Developmental Medicine and Dentistry is Resources page. That's the 
American Academy of Developmental Medicine and Dentistry. You can find 
them-- you can find the Resources page by going to the American 
Academy of Developmental Medicine and Dentistry's website by clicking 
the-- and by clicking the Coronavirus dropdown link and then clicking 
the Resources tab. 

Slide 6. So now I'm going to talk a little bit about some basic 
advocacy tips for discussing and advocating for the health care rights 
of people with disabilities during the COVID-19 pandemic, whether you 
yourself are a person with a disability or whether you're an advocate 
of some kind. 

One, your legal rights and those of your clients are not waived just 
because of COVID-19, not even if you or your client get COVID-19. 
Hospitals, whether public or private, are subject to Title II and 
Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act. 

The Americans with Disabilities Act, as many of you probably know, is 
the nation's main bit of disability rights legislation. Title II 
prohibits discrimination against people of disabilities, including the 
withholding of medically necessary care on the basis of disability in 
state and local government-run hospitals and clinics. 

Now Title III does the same thing in hospitals or clinics operated by 
corporations and private companies, whenever those are open to the 
general public, which is-- let's face it-- all of them. And Section 
504 of the Rehabilitation Act, which prohibits discrimination against 
people disabilities in a way that's pretty analogous to the ADA, 
applies to federally funded and run hospitals and clinics. In short, 
you or your clients have rights no matter where you go for care. 

Slide 7. The ACA and Section 504-- that's Section 504 of the 
Rehabilitation Act, as I said on the previous slide-- prohibit 
discrimination on the basis of disability in the provision of health 
care services. Now, this can mean a lot of different things. But 
several prominent disability rights attorneys have argued successfully 


that this prohibits hospital or state triage policies that 
discriminate on the basis of disability. 

Now you've probably heard about this issue somewhere before. But in 
short, hospital triage policies are like state rationing policies for 
health care. Before the disability rights movement and the health care 
advocacy movement got involved, there were state and hospital triage 
policies out there which straight up said that when deciding who gets 
care in an emergency, like the emergency we're having right now in the 
form of the COVID-19 pandemic, people with disabilities would be given 
lower priority. 

For example, Alabama's policy straight up used to say that people with 
significant intellectual disabilities and people with Alzheimer's 
disease would be unlikely candidates for ventilator support during 
rationing. Needless to say, that did not make many of us happy. So now 
there are several comprehensive lawsuits on this subject alone. 

Due to these lawsuits and due to the stringent efforts of advocates 
and the federal government, HHS recently put out a bulletin on the 
civil rights of people with disabilities during the COVID-19 pandemic, 
which specifically prohibits this kind of disability rationing. 

And it was in part put out thanks to the efforts of health care 
advocates like you and people of disabilities like you. So when in 
doubt about whether it's a good idea to press that disability rights 
apply during this pandemic, just remember that positive results can 
happen. 

Change slide. Oh, I'm sorry about not bringing up what HSS stand for--
stood for. I'm used to saying it reflexively. So the Americans with 
Disabilities Act and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act also 
mandate that people with disabilities must be given access to 
effective communication. 

So legally speaking, effective communication is, in fact, actually a 
legal standard under the Americans with Disabilities Act. It means 
that communicating with a person with a disability at the public 
entity or a place of public accommodation-- in other words, in the 
COVID-19 context, state-run hospitals and privately-run hospitals--
communication with people with disabilities who are receiving care 
from those locations has to be just as effective and proficient as 
communicating with a person without a disability. 

This also means that in most public spaces, that is, spaces covered by 
Titles II and III, people with disabilities have to be provided access 
to any auxiliary aids and services or modifications to policy and 
practice that they need in order to communicate. 

So under Title II specifically of the Americans with Disabilities Act, 


the one that applies to state-run hospitals and things run by the 
state and local government, Title II requires that priority be given 
to the person's preferred method of communication. So for example, if 
you are going into a state-run hospital or locally-run hospital and 
you ask for a sign language interpreter specifically and you're deaf, 
they have to give priority above all to getting you a sign language 
interpreter. 

Under Title III, the business or place of public accommodation at 
least has to seriously consider it. They're encouraged in the words of 
the law, not me, to give it primary consideration. So you should use 
Titles II and III to argue. 

You can and should argue that this means that under the Americans with 
Disabilities Act, people with disabilities or yourself who has a 
disability must be provided with proper sign language interpreters, 
argumentative and-- augmentative and alternative communication 
devices, so on. Lettered words, typing, typing, communication 
machines, as well as other-- as well as your communication aids in 
hospitals. 

Next slide. So the Administration for Community Living, or ACL, has 
released a list of resources that people with disabilities and health 
care advocates can utilize to define and defend the rights of people 
with disabilities. It's fairly comprehensive, fairly thorough in terms 
of what's out there right now. You can click the hyperlink and get a 
look. 

The American Psychological Association has a "How disabled Americans 
can cope with the COVID-19 crisis" page, which shares a lot of good 
resources and strategies for Americans with disabilities in terms of 
finding out what they need to do in order to manage themselves and 
their affairs during COVID-19. 

DREDF-- that's the Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund-- has 
released "Know Your Rights to Medical Care-- COVID-19," which also 
conveys a lot of the information I've been trying to share in this 
PowerPoint. Pausing. Has the switch happened? Awesome. 

So reasonable accommodations and supporters in hospitals, that's my 
next subject. People with disabilities, as I have stated, under the 
Americans with Disabilities Act and Section 504 have the right to the 
reasonable accommodations and reasonable modifications to policy and 
practice to receive the same quality of care in hospitals as people 
without disabilities. 

Now for some people with disabilities, that necessarily and also 
involves access to their personal assistants and supporters in 
hospitals. Because how were you going to get the same quality of care 
as people without disabilities if you don't even know what's happening 


around you? That's where supporters come in. 

People with intellectual and developmental disabilities often bring 
supporters with them to doctors, to medical visits of all kinds so 
that the person can explain to them what's happening, what the 
treatment plan is, et cetera. Nonetheless, personal care assistants 
and supporters have reportedly been denied access to their COVID-19 
positive clients in hospitals, despite the person absolutely needing 
access to these individuals in order to either take care of their 
physical needs with respect to the personal care assistants or 
understand what's going on with respect to the supporters. 

A lot of disability rights organizations have been extremely concerned 
about this, including the Autistic Self-Advocacy Network. The 
following best practices-- advocacy steps, I'm going to call them for 
some reason-- and resources will assist you in helping you or your 
client obtain these kinds of services. 

So let's start with advocacy step one, convey information on you or 
your client or your constituent's needs in medical settings. So 
sometimes the only reason that the hospital is failing to provide a 
person with a disability with a supporter or personal care assistant 
is because the person with a disability has not laid out what their 
needs actually are and why these are medically necessary or necessary 
for ameliorating and managing their disability supports, services, and 
reasonable accommodations. 

So sometimes the disabled person just needs a clear cut way of stating 
that their supporters and reasonable accommodations are medically 
necessary services. So Green Mountain's Self-Advocate's Guide to the 
Coronavirus-- remember, I mentioned this guide earlier. I told you 
it'd be coming back-- contains a plain language medical information 
form which a person with a disability can fill out. 

The medical information form allows a person with a disability or 
their supporter to fill out the form and list what their needs are in 
a health care setting, what kind of care they don't want to receive, 
what medications they need to take, whether they need a supporter or 
family member to come with them, that sort of information. 

Stony Brook University also created a form that people with 
disabilities can fill out that describes their support needs in 
hospitals. And Stony Brook University's form, while less plain 
language accessible in my opinion, is customized by state. So you can 
download a Stony Brook form that corresponds with any state in the 
union where you happen to need supports in hospitals. 

And some states and state hospitals and state organizations have 
released their own resources, like the Illinois Council on 
Developmental Disabilities My Health Passport, which, in my opinion, 


is more accessible and is generally a high quality resource to be used 
for this purpose. 

Next slide. So advocacy step two is requesting a change in hospital 
policy. So sometimes the hospital is going to refuse you even if you 
ask very nicely and very clearly. Hospitals can be dicks. So if a 
request for reasonable accommodations does not work, people with 
disabilities and their advocates may need to request and justify a 
change in hospital policy. 

This means that they talk to a representative of the hospital directly 
and show them through policy and/or legal argument why their request 
should be granted. Green Mountain's Self-Advocate's Guide to the 
Coronavirus contains a template letter. And this template letter is a 
letter to either hospital staff or hospital directors to request a 
policy change in the hospital that allows them to bring their 
supporters or personal care assistants into the hospital or, I 
believe, simply get a reasonable accommodation. 

On the subject, it may also be useful to show the hospital or clinic 
the opinions of prominent provider and medical provider organizations 
on the subject. So the American Academy of Developmental Medicine and 
Dentistry put out a policy brief on the rationale for revising 
hospital no visitors policies for COVID-19 patients. 

When arguing that you or your client should get access to supporters 
in hospitals, utilizing their policy brief as evidence that, hey, the 
medical community is behind having a reasonable modification to this 
policy for people with certain disabilities might be useful. Next 
slide. 

Advocacy step three, collaborate with disability rights organizations. 
This should arguably be pursued at the same time as step two, but I 
liked the structure here. So sometimes asking them and providing 
support for your point that a person with a disability should be 
allowed access to a supporter in a hospital is also not going to work. 

In that case, you should probably work with people who are 
coordinating around this very issue. ASAN-- that is the Autistic Self-
Advocacy Network, the organization I am a part of-- and many other 
organizations that are part of a multiple organization collaborative 
known as the Consortium for Citizens with Disabilities-- let me 
actually type that out so you can look them up-- have released letters 
to state governors and hospital administrators detailing the legal and 
public policy rationale for allowing reasonable modifications to 
hospital no visitors policies. 

So if I were you, if your own efforts have been in vain, reach out to 
these organizations to request advice on what to do next and use their 
policy briefs to make legal arguments that access to reasonable 


accommodations, auxiliary aids and services, and reasonable 
modifications to hospital policy is mandatory under federal disability 
rights law. 

You might also-- if you're advocating for a specific person or are a 
person with a disability yourself, you may want to reach out to your 
state's protection and advocacy organization. Every single state has a 
protection and advocacy organization. It helps to support and provide 
legal advice and-- legal advice and advocacy advice to people with 
disabilities who are running into a disability-related policy or legal 
problem. 

The best way to contact the P&As is to contact the National Disability 
Rights Network, or NDRN. I'm going to type that as well. Under the 
Member Agencies tab on the National Disability Rights Network's 
website, you can find a list of P&As, one for every state, and their 
contact information. 

It's a dropdown menu, and-- it's a dropdown menu where you have to 
click the state-- the state's name in question. You may also be able 
to reach out to a legal aid organization in your state. These are 
collectives of disability rights attorneys and lawyers and sometimes 
paralegals who are providing pro bono legal services to people with 
disabilities in that state. There's usually a legal aid organization 
in every state, too. 

Next slide. So access to government benefits during the COVID-19 
pandemic. Many people with disabilities and their caregivers and their 
supporters have been concerned that they will be unable to access 
government-funded long-term services and supports during the COVID-19 
pandemic. 

To clarify, long-term services and supports, or LTSS, are services 
that are usually Medicaid or Medicare funded that are provided to 
people with disabilities over a long period of time. They usually 
involve-- like I said, they're usually government funded, and they 
usually involved personal care assistants or other individuals helping 
people with disabilities with daily tasks in their lives, whether 
that's job searching or cleaning their house or managing their 
medications. 

Lots and lots and lots of people with disabilities who have trouble 
with daily living tasks use LTSS and actually rely on them in order to 
remain in the community. Other people are worried that they will not 
receive their COVID-19 stimulus checks due to the receipt of Social 
Security. 

The Green Mountain self-advocate's plain language resource has advice 
on both what to do concerning long-term services and supports, 
although I will admit that the disability advocacy community is still 


trying to figure out how to advocate around these, what to do 
concerning how to get your stimulus checks if you are on Social 
Security, and how to get unemployment benefits if you have recently 
become unemployed. 

When advocating around this issue, the Center for Public 
Representation-- I'll repeat that. The Center for Public 
Representation, or CPAR, has a COVID-19 page. And that page contains 
information on legislation, public policy, CPAR's efforts to oppose 
waivers of Medicaid-funded services like a lot of long-term services 
and supports-- that's right, the federal government and the state 
governments are attempting to waive peoples' rights to long-term 
services and supports while the pandemic is going on-- and ways to get 
involved with CPAR and other disability rights advocacy organizations 
efforts. 

Flip slide. So just to close out my presentation, always remember, 
during the worst of times, people have disabilities, all of us, we 
have rights, and these rights are worth fighting for. Thank you, 
everyone. 

ASHLEY BROMPTON: Thank you so much, Kelly. This is Ashley again. I am 
putting up your email addresses right now. I know that there were some 
requests for follow-up and some requests for additional information. 
So these are the best ways to contact both Olga and Kelly. 

I know that this was a lot of information today. There was a lot of 
really concrete information. But it was a lot of information. And so 
please know that as you're going through the PowerPoint, if anything 
else comes up for you, you can contact either of our presenters. You 
can also email us at cbs@vera.org, and we would be more than happy to 
help you as well in weeding through some of this information or 
finding which resources might be best for you. 

I'm looking at some questions right now. And we actually had several 
questions about what to do for folks specifically who use lip reading 
as a way of communicating, which we know is a small portion of people. 
But there are still some people who really rely on lip reading. And I 
don't know if either you have any ideas around masks and what that 
might mean for people who use lip reading as a way to communicate. 

OLGA TRUJILLO: Yeah, Ashley, the thing about masks is-- and I'll just 
say this as well for people who-- there are some people who can't put 
a mask on obviously because they're not physically able to put a mask 
on. And then there's people that get triggered by masks who may end up 
having kind of panic symptoms. And then there's people who might not 
be able to communicate because of the mask, like people who are deaf 
who might not be able to communicate, right? And then lip reading. 

So the masks are-- we're asking people to wear masks-- communities are 


asking people to wear masks to prevent the possible spread of the 
virus. But it's not-- so what I would recommend is if you cannot wear 
a, mask then do not wear a mask. But then limit when you are out where 
you're going. Keep an eye on where you're going. 

And then I would have-- and this is not a requirement at all. But 
right now, things are kind of tense out there. I would have something 
in writing. Like, I created a card for people that have DID to give to 
a health professional, for example, that says that they have DID, who 
their clinician is, who their support person is should they need that 
health person to get-- for that person to get some support from them. 
Like, please call them if, you know. 

And I think you could create a card that says you are unable to wear a 
mask right now, and medically-- or something like that so that if 
you're challenged, that you can provide information about the fact 
that you're unable to wear a mask right now. You don't necessarily 
have to say why you're unable to wear a mask. But I like to go back to 
the law and say, I have a disability and cannot wear a mask right now. 

But I would-- because although there's kind of-- it really varies 
across the country as to whether it's a requirement or not. Not 
everyone is wearing masks. Like, if 60% of the population wore masks, 
which is not what's happening in my area, then we're going to curtail 
the spread of the virus. 

But if you can't communicate or you're going to have panic attacks or 
any of those things by wearing a mask, then you shouldn't wear a mask 
and then have something to notify people should you be challenged by 
it. That would be my recommendation. And that's me living in a town of 
500 people where when I go to the grocery store, I'm one of four 
people wearing a mask, except for all the employees. 

ASHLEY BROMPTON: And, Olga, this is Ashley. While you were talking and 
providing that great input, we had a couple of participants share 
something that they learned on an earlier session that we had that 
people are developing clear masks that sort of facilitate the ability 
to use lip reading. 

And so that's an option. But people are-- there's a little bit of chat 
in the box about how it is harder to come by. Those masks are not easy 
to come by. They're more expensive they're more limited. So just a lot 
a lot going on there to unpack. 

I do want to open it up for the audience. Well, I know Olga has 
something to add. But while she's speaking, if anyone has any other 
questions, please feel free to enter them in the Q&A pod so that we 
can address them. 

OLGA TRUJILLO: There's a little bit of issue with the clear masks, 


meaning what they're made out of, because some people are having 
trouble breathing in them. So just be mindful of that. Breathing is a 
good thing. 

ASHLEY BROMPTON: Thank you, Olga. That seems like an important thing 
to note about those masks. I'm just looking to see if there are any 
other questions. While we're waiting for any other questions, let's do 
a final interpreter switch. I know we're almost done. But just in case 
any other questions come up while we're waiting for those questions, 
we'll do another switch 

OLGA TRUJILLO: I wanted-- if it's OK, I wanted to jump in for a 
second. The information that you provided, Kelly, was awesome. 

KELLY ISRAEL: Oh, thank you. 

OLGA TRUJILLO: Yeah, and I was curious-- sorry, Ashley. I hope it's OK 
that I'm not-- I'm kind of-- I was curious. So I live in a really 
small community, as I've mentioned a few times. 

KELLY ISRAEL: Yeah. 

OLGA TRUJILLO: When I first moved here-- like, I grew up in DC and 
worked in the federal government and all that stuff. So when I first 
moved here, I, like, was my DC lawyer self. And I realized that I was 
ruffling a lot of feathers. 

And so my approach with a hospital in my area is calling them and 
asking them what their policies are around COVID-19 because I was 
trying to figure out a plan for myself, because I'm a person that 
needs a support person at the hospital, and then asking them if they 
knew whether Wisconsin had a policy or not about that and what 
exceptions were there under the Americans with Disabilities Act and 
stuff like that. 

So they didn't know anything about any of that because they're 
overwhelmed and not the most sophisticated hospital system in the 
world. But I started that way to not ruffle too many feathers in 
case-- because they remember who you are. 

Like, you can go places here, and people are like, oh, that's all 
Olga, that kind of thing. So I was curious, like, if you all are 
coming across like some smaller rural communities being a little more 
difficult to work with or easier to work with or any of that. 

KELLY ISRAEL: I mean, truth be told, because I am-- because I am not 
of the two attorneys the one who has been collaborating on a lot of 
the disability-related complaints that are being sent around, I'm not 
entirely sure how rural communities are being affected and whether 
they're a little bit more difficult to get with the program. 


But I honestly suspect that. Because, like, just speaking on a 
completely different subject, in small communities or small states, it 
is just surprisingly difficult to get people to realize that rules 
from the federal government apply to them. There is such a thing as 
person-centered planning, and people are supposed to have it. 

Like, I queried a provider once in-- I won't explain the context for 
legal reasons-- who didn't even know what person-centered planning 
was, let alone providing conflict-free case management. And I think 
that the same kind of issue is going to come up during the COVID-19 
pandemic. And I'll be damned on how to deal with it, except stating 
that under the law, you are required to provide auxiliary aids and 
services and reasonable accommodations. 

OLGA TRUJILLO: And I think that-- so what I was-- what I do in my 
community is I call and inquire first and try to be really friendly 
and helpful. And then if there isn't kind of a willingness to look, I 
do the more heavy-handed the law says this, and you need to do that. 

KELLY ISRAEL: Yeah, it's why the very first advocacy step isn't 
breathe down their necks and destroy them in my presentation. It's 
maybe they just need to know what you actually need in order to obtain 
care. Maybe they just need to realize that access to a supporter who 
can tell you what's going on is actually, in effect, part of your 
care, and you can make that argument. 

OLGA TRUJILLO: Right. 

ASHLEY BROMPTON: Great. I think--

KELLY ISRAEL: It is an argument that you need to make, to be clear. 
Some medical providers are probably going-- are probably going to 
think of supporters as not being medically necessary for your care 
just because they're not really medical. But if they're necessary for 
you to make decisions about your care, I think you can actually make 
that argument. 

You can also make the argument that they're a necessary reasonable 
modification to a no visitors policy or reasonable accommodation. I 
wish I could give you a more clear cut answer on that. But I'm a 
lawyer. And so we try every angle we can to get our clients what they 
need. 

ASHLEY BROMPTON: This is Ashley. Thank you so much for that. I think 
this is one of those rare days in our presentations where all of the 
panelists are lawyers. So there is a lot of it depends answers that 
happen. 

KELLY ISRAEL: Yeah, it depends on what you think will work to get the 


hospital to let the supporter in. 

ASHLEY BROMPTON: Exactly. 

KELLY ISRAEL: I can give you a couple of possible options you can use, 
but I can't say for sure which one of them will work. 

ASHLEY BROMPTON: Yeah, and this is actually-- again, I think that that 
just really puts a fine point on this idea of we really need to meet 
people where they're at, not only the survivors and people with 
disabilities that we're working with, but also the staff members at 
hospitals and other medical facilities and other service providers, 
recognizing that systems are stretched really thin right now. And so I 
think just having a recognition of that and trying different avenues 
and getting creative in your advocacy is a great point to make. 

KELLY ISRAEL: Yeah, I mean-- yeah, I would be inclined to express it 
as a reasonable accommodation or reasonable modification to policy on 
my end. 

ASHLEY BROMPTON: Right, absolutely. And with that, we are going to 
wrap up. It is just about 3:30, and I want to make sure that we have 
time for the closing. I cannot thank you both enough for being on 
today. We've got-- I don't know if you all were looking at the chat, 
but we got tons of thank yous. 

People are e-mailing me already with positive feedback. So we really 
appreciate you spending some time with us today. It's always a great 
day when we can get really concrete strategies and concrete resources 
and have some tools in our toolbox to work with. So we appreciate both 
of you so much for being here. 

For the audience, we do ask that you complete a brief survey. The link 
is in the PowerPoint. But when I end this session, the survey will 
automatically pop up. So if you don't mind just completing that 
survey, it really helps us learn about what you liked and didn't like, 
what we can improve upon for the future, particularly given that this 
was our very first webinar on Zoom, and we want to make sure that we 
continue to meet your needs throughout the webinars that we host 
moving forward. 

As a reminder, the recording of this webinar, all of the PowerPoint 
materials, and the transcript will all be posted on our End Abuse of 
People with Disabilities website. We do-- it's going to take a little 
bit longer than it did when we used to use Adobe Connect just because 
we need to do some work on the back end to get the video up on the 
website. 

So for those of you who are used to seeing it within 24 hours, I would 
say look at more about a week probably before the recording is up. In 


the meantime, if you would like to access the PowerPoint or you need a 
record of attendance, the link that was in the chat today will take 
you to those documents. 

The link will also be in the automated follow-up email that you get 
from Zoom. So make sure you actually look at that email. It might go 
to your spam. So make sure you're looking for it if you're looking for 
that link. If you cannot find that link, feel free to email us 
directly at cbs@vera.org, and we'd be happy to help you out. Thank you 
all so much for attending today and spending some time with us. We 
really appreciate it, and have a great day, everyone.