ASHLEY BROMPTON: Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining our 
webinar today. I'm Ashley Brompton with the Center on Victimization 
and Safety at the Vera Institute of Justice. I'd like to welcome you 
to our webinar today. We're pleased to bring you this webinar as part 
of our 2020 End Abuse of People with Disabilities webinar series. 

Before we get started today, I want to provide a few quick reminders. 
Today we will have captioning and American sign language 
interpretation available. We will pause every 15 minutes for an 
American sign language interpreter switch. If you have any issues with 
the American sign language interpreters or captioning, please let us 
know in the chat. 

Feel free to use the chat. But if you have any questions for the 
presenters, use the Q&A so it doesn't get lost. We will be recording 
today's webinar. The webinar recording and materials will be posted on 
the End Abuse of People with Disabilities website within two weeks. A 
record of attendance and a PDF of the PowerPoint will be available for 
download via link in the chat. They'll also be provided via email. 

With that in mind, today the webinar is going to talk about meeting 
the needs of formerly incarcerated survivors with disabilities. This 
intersection of these three identities of being formerly incarcerated, 
being a survivor, and being a person with a disability is rarely 
addressed by service providers in really concrete ways. 

This is a personal passion of mine that I've been working a long time 
to be able to bring this content to you all. And my goal is that this 
webinar today will start conversations, conversations that go beyond 
this webinar into your organizations and into additional opportunities 
that we might have to work together on this issue. 

I'm really fortunate because I have two amazing colleagues here at 
Vera who center the needs of formerly incarcerated survivors in their 
work. And these are people with whom I am able to work on this 
intersection with. Those colleagues are our presenters today, Allison 
Hastings and Kaitlin Kall. 

Kaitlin Kall has been working with the Vera Institute of Justice since 
2012. As a senior program associate, her work center is right 
increasing access to healing services for incarcerated and formerly 
incarcerated survivors and local jail reform. 

Allison Hastings is a project director at the Vera institute of 
justice. Her work focuses on eliminating sexual abuse in confinement 
settings and improving access to healing services for formerly 
incarcerated survivors. Thank you to both Allison and Kaitlin for 
joining us today. We're super excited for this webinar. And with that, 
I'm going to turn it over to you all. 


KAITLIN KALL: All right. Hello, everybody. This is Kaitlin Kall 
speaking. I'm really excited to be here with you today. I've been an 
audience member in this webinar series. And it's a thrill and an honor 
to present. As Ashley said, in some ways, this is an exploratory 
conversation. It's meant to kick off a dialogue. And throughout this 
presentation, I'll be talking about things that we know based on data 
and research and things that we're speculating about and things that 
we wish we knew more about. So, again, thank you for being here. 

Next slide, please. I will start by giving an overview of the agenda 
for today. To kick it off, I am going to provide a national picture of 
incarceration, including the impact that incarceration has on people 
with disabilities. Next, I intend to share what we know about the 
victimization experiences of people who have been incarcerated, 
including people with disabilities. 

And then I'm going to hand it over to Allison, who will begin a 
discussion about the barriers faced by formerly incarcerated survivors 
and those with disabilities. And she'll also talk about how barriers 
faced by disabilities and people with incarceration histories, these 
barriers compound. And then, finally, she'll wrap up today's 
discussion by sharing some promising strategies for reaching formerly 
incarcerated survivors with disabilities and closing existing service 
gaps. 

Next slide, please. So again, I'm going to start today by painting a 
scope of the-- a picture of the scope of incarceration in the United 
States. Next slide. 

So to ground this conversation, let's start with the fact that people 
with disabilities are overrepresented in jails and prisons. Another 
way of saying this is that people with disabilities are more likely to 
be incarcerated than people without disabilities. Next slide. And 
furthermore, people who are of have been incarcerated are more likely 
to have experienced violent victimization than those who have never 
been incarcerated. Next slide, please. 

Globally, America has the highest rate of incarceration in the world, 
so compared to all other nations. And so this means that when we think 
about incarcerated and formerly incarcerated survivors with 
disabilities, we are talking about a lot of people. Every day in the 
US, 2.3 million people are incarcerated. This slide shows some 
breakdown by correctional facilities. 

So 1.5 million people every day are in state and federal prisons. And 
about 600,000 are in local jails. On the next slide, I'll define what 
we mean by jail and prison and the differences. 

So this 2.3 million people is a lot of folks. But I want to remind you 
that this is just a one-day snapshot. This does not capture the 


millions of others who might pass through a jail or prison over the 
course of a year. So as I said, even though on the daily average, 
around 600,000 people are local jail, actually 10 million people will 
enter the front door of a jail each year. Next slide, please. 

So how are jails and prisons different and what do these terms mean? 
You're going to hear Allison and I talk about both in our conversation 
today. I'll start by talking a little bit about what jails are. 

So jails are generally operated by cities or counties. They're local 
facilities. And there are about 3,300 jails in the US. And not 
coincidentally, there are also around 3,300 counties in the US. Almost 
every county in America has its own jail. 

So jail is really regional, and it's local. Jails hold two different--
mostly hold-- two different types of population. The first are people 
who are considered pretrial. So these other people who are charged 
with a crime, but have not yet been convicted in a court or plead 
guilty to their charges. And this is the vast majority of people in 
jail. On average, around 75% of people in jail are pretrial. 

The second group that tends to be incarcerated in jails are folks who 
have been convicted of a misdemeanor charge. These are lesser charges, 
less serious charges, and therefore, sentences tend to be under year. 
Increasingly around the US, we're seeing jails being used to hold ICE 
detainees for the federal government. And because most cities and 
counties have a jail, or two jails, their locations can be urban, 
suburban, or rural. 

Prisons on the other hand, are operated generally by state governments 
and the federal government. And they hold people often who have been 
found guilty or have plead to a felony charge. So these are more 
serious charges, and therefore, sentences usually last a year or 
greater. The average length that someone is in a prison in several 
years. 

And locations vary. But generally, prisons are built in rural areas, 
much farther away from city centers. Next slide, please. 

A painful and unavoidable feature of America's criminal justice system 
is that the US disproportionately incarcerate people of color. On this 
slide is a chart that shows racial disparities and local jail 
incarceration rates. The left-most column shows that a Black American 
is three times more likely to be in jail than a white person. 

And the column to the right of it shows that a Native American person 
is twice as likely to be in jail than a white person. Although this 
slide is focusing on jail, we know that there are also tremendous 
racial disparities in the prison system. Although the US population is 
about 37% people of color, 67% of people in prison are people of 


color. 

And two further examples on this point-- a Black man in America is six 
times more likely than a white man to be incarcerated in a prison. And 
Latinx people are incarcerated at double the rate of white people. 
Next slide, please. 

And what do we know about the number of people with disabilities 
inside our jails and prisons? Well, we know for certain that people 
with disabilities are overrepresented in jails and prison. The CDC 
estimates that about 26% of Americans in the general public have at 
least one disability. 

And when do we look at prisons for example, we see that 32% of people 
report having at least one disability, as is true of 40% of people in 
jail. But we have good reason to think that this is actually 
underestimating the number of people with disabilities who are 
incarcerated. And this is for several reasons. 

We know from the stories of folks who have been incarcerated that 
there there's often hesitation to share about having a disability when 
someone is incarcerated. It can feel very vulnerable. There's mistrust 
of staff and other incarcerated folks. 

It's also very likely that people who enter jails and prisons do not 
have a formal diagnosis. They might not be unaware or have the 
terminology to express that they have a disability. And then finally, 
there's very little data collection, and there's very little 
screening. And so all of this makes us think that these number are 
actually undercount. 

But even assuming that this 40% of people in jail having disability is 
accurate, remember that 10 million people enter jail each year. So 
this alone suggests that at least 4 million people with disabilities 
will experience jail in the course of a year. And I'm going to pause 
here for an interpreter switch. 

We don't have a lot of information about the types of disabilities 
represented in jail and prison populations. But one area where there 
has been a lot of research and recognition is at the intersection of 
mental illness and incarceration. In fact, 3/4 of women in prison have 
a mental health issue, as do half of men. And again, when we look at 
jail, we see that men in jail have mental illnesses at four times the 
rate in the general population, and women at six times the rate. 

And this third bullet point reads that 75% of people in prison with a 
mental illness also have a substance abuse issue. Sometimes in this 
field, we use the term co-occurring issue to describe when someone has 
both a mental illness and an addiction issue. I've noticed recently, I 
think the field is moving away from this term a bit. And I've heard 


behavioral health embraced. And what I think is heartening about this 
term is that it includes addiction, mental illness, but also the 
acknowledgment of trauma and victimization and the acknowledgment that 
services really should incorporate all three for those who need it. 

Next slide, please. All right, so at this point today, I'm going to 
talk about what we know about the victimization experiences of people 
who have been incarcerated. I think generally this has been 
understudied and an ignored issue. In our society, and in the fields 
in which we work, we kind of think about victims and people who are in 
prison and jail a separate category. But what I want you to take away 
today is that the research that we do have really paints a picture 
that people who are impacted by incarceration have often dealt with 
victimization and abuse before, during, and even after incarceration. 

Next slide, please. So what the research tells us is that most people 
who are incarcerated were victims first, before their incarceration. 
The national data we have is 20 years old. It was conducted by the 
federal government, the Department of Justice. And it did find that 
both men and women who are incarcerated had higher rates of 
victimization before incarceration than those in the general public. 

What this slide shows is some data from a study conducted by Bruce 
Western. Bruce Western is an academic who worked with folks who have 
returned home to the Boston area after being incarcerated. The study 
looks at a lot of different dynamics and barriers and includes 
victimization history. 

So in the 122 people that he worked with, he found that prior to their 
incarceration, 40% had witnessed someone being killed, nearly half 
were beaten by their parents, one third grew up with other forms of 
family violence, 16% reported being sexually abused, and half were 
seriously injured while growing up. And I'll mention that these 
findings and many others are included in a book that he wrote called 
Homeward, Life in the Year After Prison. 

Next slide, please. We also have data that show us that women in 
particular, have experienced high rates of violence before 
incarceration. When we look at women in jail, most women in jail have 
been were survivors of gender-based violence before their 
incarceration. 86% say that they have experienced sexual violence, and 
77% have survived intimate partner violence. 

So I think of this as not all survivors of gender-based violence will 
end up in jail certainly, but all women, are almost all women in jail 
are survivors. And I want to say here that women in jail are actually 
the fastest growing correctional population in the United States. The 
rates of male incarceration in jail have actually gone down in the 
last couple years, but the rates of women have continued to skyrocket. 
So unfortunately, what this means is more survivors than ever are 


being impacted by jail. 

Next slide. We don't have a lot of research specifically about the 
victimization of incarcerated and formerly incarcerated survivors with 
disabilities prior to incarceration. But what we do know is that 
adults with disabilities are two and a half times more likely to 
experience violent victimization in the community compared to folks 
without disabilities. And so therefore, we feel pretty confident that 
we can say that people with disabilities who do end up in the system 
were likely victims first. 

Unfortunately, we know that when people are incarcerated, they're also 
likely to experience violence during their incarceration. On this 
slide is an infographic that displays that 1 in 10 people who are in 
state prison report that they were sexually abused while there. 
Victimization behind bars is certainly not limited to sexual abuse. 
But sexual abuse is a more studied area, because of the Prison Rape 
Elimination Act, which you might hear people refer to as PREA, P-R-E


A. Out of this point as well, that that Bruce Western study also found 
that 3/4 of his participants said that they witnessed assaults while 
incarcerated. 
Next slide, please. Again, we have a limited data on the specific 
experiences of people with disabilities while incarcerated. However, 
there was one study, again, from the federal government, that found 
that people with psychiatric disabilities were nine times more likely 
to be sexually abused by another inmate while incarcerated than people 
without psychiatric disabilities. 

Next slide, please. And what happens when people return home after 
being incarcerated? Bruce Western of the Boston study found that a 
quarter of people had been threatened or attacked in the community 
after coming home after incarceration. And I'm going to read this 
quote that's in this box on the right. This is from his book, 
Homeward. 

And it reads, "As victims, the respondents were shot, stabbed, beaten, 
raped, and molested. But even beyond the familiar roles of victim and 
offender, nearly all respondents reported witnessing serious violence, 
and all reported fighting in which the roles of victim and offender 
were difficult to distinguish." I'll add that a more recent study from 
Florida State University echoes these findings based on interviews and 
surveys of people who had recently returned home after incarceration. 
The study found that half of participants had experienced at least one 
traumatic event in the first eight months of being back in the 
community, a quarter had experienced violent assault, and 18% had lost 
a loved one to homicide. 

So piecing all of these sources together, I do think it's clear that 
many people who have been incarcerated, including people with 


disabilities, have survived violence before, during, and after 
incarceration. And despite this evidence, people with disabilities and 
formerly incarcerated survivors continue to experience barriers to the 
[INAUDIBLE] and healing services. So at this point, I'm going to ask 
Allison to join us and to discuss some of these barriers with us. 

ALLISON: Thank you so much, Kaitlin. As Kaitlin said, I am now going 
to spend some time talking with you about the barriers to services for 
formerly incarcerated survivors with disabilities. As I go through 
these slides, keep in mind that the barriers are threefold. Survivors 
face barriers to reentry, healing, and disability services. 

I'm going to start by talking more generally about the barriers to 
healing that incarcerated and formerly incarcerated survivors face. 
And then I'll focus on how those barriers are compounded for formerly 
incarcerated survivors with disabilities. Before we talk about 
reentry, I want to take a minute to note that despite the picture of 
incarceration and victimization that Kaitlin just painted for you, 
despite how many people who have who are incarcerated have a prior 
history of victimization or experience victimization while they are 
incarcerated, many, many victims do not get help while they are 
incarcerated. 

There are many barriers to reporting and services while someone is 
still incarcerated. Some of these barriers are similar to barriers 
that victims in the community face. People might feel embarrassed or 
ashamed. They may not want anyone to know. And those are things that 
many, many people who've survived victimization in the community 
experience too. 

There are other barriers that are more specific or intense for folks 
who are incarcerated. They may be afraid of the perpetrator. Because 
in a prison or jail, it's quite hard to gain distance or space from 
another person. 

They may worry about not being believed and think that staff would not 
investigate their claim or their report. And they may fear staff 
retaliation or being punished by staff. For example, a victim might 
report a sexual assault while inside. And then in response to that, 
the facility might place the person in some type of protective 
custody. Protective custody is often very isolating and is experienced 
as punitive, even if it's for that person's protection. And it's much 
more devastating for incarcerated people with disabilities. 

The American Civil Liberties Union wrote a report in 2017 called 
"Caged In" that discusses how harmful solitary confinement is for 
incarcerated people with physical disabilities. So there are a lot of 
reasons why people do not get help, do not report while they are still 
incarcerated. And what it means is that a lot of people are coming 
home carrying the trauma of incarceration and the trauma of 


unaddressed needs stemming from victimization. But the truth is even 
during reentry and after people have come home, many victims do not 
get the services they need to heal. And I'm going to pause for an 
interpreter switch. 

Formerly incarcerated survivors-- so there are a number of barriers to 
accessing victim services during reentry for formerly incarcerated 
survivors. First, the language that we use is not always the language 
formerly incarcerated survivors use. We talk in terms of victimization 
or surviving a crime. But many folks coming out of prison or jail have 
been labeled as offenders. 

So that kind of language may not resonate for them. They may have 
internalized that label of offender and don't see themselves as a 
victim. We also have a false dichotomy in our society of, quote 
unquote, "victim," and, quote unquote, "perpetrator." Kaitlin 
mentioned this before, but we tend to think of people as either being 
victims or perpetrators. 

But as she described, many people who have committed harm experienced 
harm first. And people can switch between these different realities. 
They are not static identities. 

There is also a tremendous amount of stigma associated with being 
formerly incarcerated. People who are formerly incarcerated may never 
go through the door of a victim service office if they anticipate 
rejection. And many people have had terrible experiences with systems 
and will anticipate rejection. So the stigma can have a real negative 
impact on help seeking. 

Reentry services and victim services are also often siloed. They're 
not in touch with each other. And they don't coordinate. And there are 
few trauma-informed service programs for victim survivors who have 
incarceration histories. 

Formerly incarcerated survivors with disabilities face all the same 
barriers that I just described. But those barriers can be more 
frequent and have an even greater negative impact on their lives. So 
at the outset, I mentioned that barriers for formerly incarcerated 
survivors with disabilities are threefold. So first, formerly 
incarcerated people with disabilities face a lot of reentry 
challenges. 

Access Living of Metropolitan Chicago published a report last year 
urging a cross disability perspective to reducing jail incarceration. 
In that report, they note that reentry services are often not 
accessible for people with disabilities. Stable housing that is 
affordable, accessible, and open to people with conviction histories 
is also very limited. And this is a really important point, because 
formerly incarcerated people are 10 times more likely to be homeless 


than the general population. So the need for affordable accessible 
housing is critical. 

Benefits like social security and supplemental security income are 
also often terminated during incarceration, which presents more 
challenges when someone gets out. And they have this quote in their 
report, which I'm going to read. "When a person is disabled and has a 
criminal record, their discrimination is compounded by ever-shrinking 
options." 

Formerly incarcerated survivors with disabilities again, like they 
face all the same barriers that formerly incarcerated survivors 
without disabilities face. But they face additional specific barriers 
too. Services and materials related to victim services may not be in 
plain language, and therefore, they may be difficult for people with 
cognitive or intellectual disabilities to understand. Forms and intake 
policies may not be accessible to people with disabilities. 

There may be communication barriers. Service providers may not 
understand deaf culture. They may not have planned for American sign 
language interpretation or know how to access interpretation 
resources. And there is stigma around disability. There may be the 
idea that people with disabilities can't change or that they can't 
participate in services. 

And again, like the silos I described before, victim services, 
disability services, and reentry services are often siloed. You know, 
Kaitlin and I have worked with a lot of different providers over the 
years. And when I think about the silos, I think about one provider we 
worked with who works at the intersection of healing incarceration and 
reentry. And he's noted to us before that a real challenge, which is 
sometimes dictated by funding or maybe an organization's mission or 
their history, is that service providers offer what they have, rather 
than what a person needs. And those two things don't always line up. 

So finally, when we get to the third prong of the barriers, we're 
really looking at the barriers that formerly incarcerated survivors 
with disabilities face when it comes to disability services. So I 
mentioned before that in our society, we typically draw a bright line 
between victims and perpetrators. The same is true of disability 
programs. They often draw a bright line between these two groups. 

This means that people may be automatically disqualified from services 
regardless of the type of conviction in their history. We really want 
to encourage providers to assess what will feel safe for their staff 
and their clients and create more nuanced eligibility requirements. 

And we're not saying that you should eliminate all exclusions for 
people with conviction histories. But the fact is that almost half of 
the people who are in state or federal prison are there for nonviolent 


offenses. So we think it's important to really think about what type 
of offenses, what type of conviction histories might compromise the 
safety of your staff, the comfort of your staff and of your clients, 
and think about what you might be able to include and then what you 
feel like is important to exclude. 

For example, a disability program might decide they can't provide 
services to people who've been convicted of violent sex offenses. We 
recommend that programs make that very clear that those folks are not 
going to be able to get services. However, if it's possible to find a 
place that might accept that person, we think that doing a little bit 
of research and having referrals in mind could be helpful. 

Another issue is that people who've been incarcerated are less likely 
to have formal diagnoses, which are often required to receive state 
disability services. And I know I keep talking about stigma, but 
stigma is such a huge barrier in so many ways. And the stigma of 
incarceration can be especially challenging for disability 
organizations, because of their long-standing concerns about 
protecting the safety of people with disabilities. That emphasis on 
protecting safety may lead to real reluctance on the part of service 
providers about including people who have criminal justice system 
involvement in their past. 

So now for the good news. We've talked about a lot of difficulties. 
And now, we want to talk about what is promising. I mean, again, we 
are at the beginning of really looking at this intersection of 
incarceration, disability, and healing. But we think that we have some 
good ideas and ways that we can chart a path forward. 

In February of this year, the National Resource Center for Reaching 
Victims published a report based on a needs assessment that Kaitlin 
and I conducted. The report is not specific to formerly incarcerated 
survivors who have disabilities, but a lot of the material applies to 
that population. 

What we have in this report, what we present is what we learned about 
those who live with both a history of victimization and a history of 
incarceration. The barriers that I described earlier, we really 
learned those during this assessment. And then we make some 
recommendations based on our assessment about how we can ease barriers 
and open the door to healing. 

So here are some of our recommendations for how we can open the door 
to healing for formerly incarcerated survivors. And as I said, we 
believe all of these apply to formerly incarcerated survivors who have 
disabilities as well. First, hire victim service providers who are 
professionally trained, trauma informed, and comfortable with people--
and comfortable working with people who have been incarcerated. And 
then train staff to develop more knowledge and increase their skills. 


And I would add that you want to be hiring providers who are also 
comfortable working with people who have disabilities and then working 
to train them on important access considerations. 

Second, develop and nurture partnerships between victim service 
providers and reentry programs. And again, I would add disability 
service programs too, because again, these partnerships can allow 
folks to really expand their thinking and the services that they're 
able to offer to folks so that they do give folks more of what they 
need and not just what they have, or have traditionally had. And then 
the third one is to adopt broader definitions and terms for 
victimization. Discussing victimization in terms of people harmed by 
violence, any one affected by violence, or survivors of trauma or harm 
may resonate more with people who have been incarcerated, especially 
with men. And 90% of people who are incarcerated are men, so we are 
talking about a lot of folks. 

These things I think, are important for access too. The more 
descriptive and plain language that providers use, the more folks will 
recognize their experience in the words, and the more willing they may 
be to seek services. We have a few ideas for how to improve access to 
healing and reentry services for formerly incarcerated survivors with 
disabilities. So these are some more specific items that we recommend. 

The first is to increase communication access. Again, as I was just 
saying, using plain language to describe your services in the 
materials that you use would help broaden access to your services. 
Planning for and providing access to interpreters for people who are 
deaf would also help communicate-- help increase communication access. 
I'm going to pause here for an interpreter switch. 

OK, so number two, we encourage folks to broaden their thinking about 
people with disabilities who have experienced incarceration and 
violence. Again, rethink automatic disqualifications and strive for 
holistic service provision. We recommend that you affirmatively 
acknowledge that there may be people who are not safe to serve, but we 
urge you to be thoughtful about who is not safe to serve and look 
beyond the criminal record when making those determinations. It may be 
an important factor. But we would encourage you to think about it 
being one of several factors for consideration. 

And then finally, increase capacity to serve formerly incarcerated 
survivors with disabilities. Train staff on what it means to be 
incarceration informed. We have a colleague in this field at the 
Boston Area Rape Crisis Center who talks a lot about this concept of 
understanding more about the trauma of incarceration. And that can 
help inform how you saw formerly incarcerated survivors, in the same 
way that service providers who provide healing services need to 
understand more about disability and access. 


And to that end, form partnerships with disability organizations. You 
know, Kaitlin talked before about how many people with disabilities [? 
are ?] in jails or prisons. It's a large number of folks. And there 
needs to be more cross training and coordination for serving people 
when they come home. 

I want to conclude by drawing your attention again, to this 2019 
report from Access Living of Metropolitan Chicago. This report offers 
big structural recommendations. But it also emphasizes different ways 
of providing services and the importance of having a cross disability 
perspective. This is similar to what I just described, having there be 
some cross training between different types of providers. So again, 
people who have multiple identities, who have complicated histories, 
layered histories of trauma, get the services that they need. 

Here are some of their recommendations. Increase storytelling and 
advocacy opportunities for people with disabilities who've been in the 
criminal legal system. Train staff working in the system on a cross-
disability framework so that they can identify and support people with 
disabilities. 

Kaitlin mentioned this before, but mental illness or psychiatric 
disability has been an area where there's been a lot of efforts to--
it's been an area that has been a focus of the Criminal Justice Reform 
Movement. But other forms of disability have often been left out. So 
we really encourage more of a emphasis and more training and skill 
building around other types of disabilities. And to that end, 
collecting and sharing more data related to people with disabilities 
in the system. We don't have a lot of data. 

And invest in housing options that are affordable and accessible for 
people with a range of disabilities and to people who have a 
conviction history. Again, the risk of homelessness is high for people 
who are formerly incarcerated, and likely higher for those who have 
disabilities as well. And lastly is to expand Medicaid enrollment in 
jails. On this point, we know that Medicaid is crucial for obtaining 
access to health care, but it's also a vital component of accessing 
behavioral health care, which Kaitlin talked about earlier. And that 
relates to issues like addiction. And having greater access to 
behavioral health care can reduce instances of reincarceration and 
generally improves well-being 

So with that, that concludes our presentation here today. And we 
appreciate being with you and sharing this information and look 
forward to opportunities to continue to build on the work that has 
been done and to deepen it at this intersection of disability reentry 
and healing. Thank you. 

ASHLEY BROMPTON: This is Ashley. Thank you so much, Allison and 
Kaitlin as well. Thank you for really providing an introduction to 


this sort of unique intersection that again, we haven't really been 
talking about. We're really excited to dive more into this work and 
have further conversations with all of you about this work. 

Please note that we do have a survey regarding this webinar. The link 
will be emailed out to you as well. Webinar materials are also 
available for download, so we will make sure you get that link so that 
you're able to download materials, as well as a record of attendance. 

And the other thing to think about is if you have questions, or if 
there's anything that you're curious about or that you want to know 
more about, please email us. You can email the CBS email address, 
which is CBS@vera.org. Or you can email me directly, which is 
abrompton-- B-R-O-M-P-T-O-N-- @vera.org, and we'll make sure that 
Kaitlin or Allison gets those questions. 

We really want to hear from you about where you want this conversation 
to go. Again, opening up this dialogue was really important for us. 
But we want to make sure that we are meeting the needs of all of you 
who might be interested in this intersection or doing work at this 
intersection already. Thank you all so much for your time today. We 
appreciate each and every one of you. 

Thank you to the interpreters who have worked so hard for us today to 
get this accomplished. And have a great day everyone. Thank you.