ASHLEY BROMPTON: Good afternoon. Welcome, everyone. It's so great to see all of you today. We've got people all over the world with us today. I saw some folks from Saudi Arabia, some folks from Canada, I saw people from all over the place today. Plus a whole bunch of people from all over the country. It's so great to have you all here with us today. I know the panelists are really excited that you all are coming today to talk to us. And my name is Ashley Brompton with the Center on Victimization and Safety at the Vera Institute of Justice. I would like to welcome you to today's webinar. We are pleased to bring you this webinar as part of our 2021 interviews of People with Disabilities webinar series. Before we get started today, I want to give some quick information about the accessibility features of our Zoom webinar platform, as well as how you can interact with us throughout the session today. You as participants should be in listen only view only mode. This means that we as panelists can not hear you or see you, but you can see us, and you will be able to hear us in just a moment. If you would like to see the captions, please go to the closed captioning symbol at the bottom of your screen. It should say live transcripts. If you select the little carat or arrow to the right of that icon, you can choose either to Show Subtitles, or View Full Transcript view. Once you do so, the words I am speaking will appear on top of the videos. If you choose subtitles or show Full Transcript, it will appear on the right hand side of the screen. Today we do have a multilingual space the presentation is in English. We have American Sign Language interpreters, which you should be able to see on your screen. Please message us if for some reason at any point in time you cannot see the American Sign Language interpreters. And if you are looking for a Spanish interpretation line, you likely received some information about how to access that in advance. However, due to some last minute technical difficulties, we had to change how we are using that line today. We did post a phone number and a pin code in the chat, so there should be some instructions going into the chat now with the phone number and the pin code to access the Spanish language interpretation. We pause every 20 minutes to make sure that the interpreters have a chance to switch, give or take. This ensures the highest quality of interpretation. So again roughly every 20 minutes or so, we will take a pause and intentional pause and we will let we are causing for an interpreter switch. If at any time you have any issues with the interpreters or the captioning, or you can no longer see the interpreters or the captioning or hear the Spanish language interpreters, please let us know in the chat or using the question and answer box. We do value complete access in our virtual sessions we want to make sure that this space is as accessible as it can be. If you have a technical problem please let us know, if we have a technical problem on our End, we're going to pause to address the issue. If the issue cannot be resolved, we may have to cancel the session, if that happens, we will send you an email and let you know what's going on. Feel free to use the chat to introduce yourselves as so many of you have done, and to communicate with each other. If you have a question for the presenters though we do ask that you use the question and answer box, that's at the bottom of the screen it says Q&A and it has two little bubbles. We use that because that way your questions will get lost in the shuffle of the chat. There's a lot going on in the chat and we want to make sure that your questions don't get lost. If you would like to ask a question in American Sign Language, please raise your hand we will confirm that that's what you're attempting to do, so we can make sure we can give you video privileges so that you are able to do that. We are trying to hold all questions until the end of the discussion today, just so that we can kind of get through what we plan on talking about, and then we'll open it up for questions at the end. A quick note about the chat pod, you cannot save the chat, or a copy and paste from the chat. This is a security measure. If we share links in the chat, we will make sure to include them in any emails we send out for the session afterwards or we will send them either in an email or in follow up materials, and in that link. If you joined using your web browser, you may only be seeing speaker view, which may prohibit you from seeing all of the panelists today. You may only be seeing the American Sign Language interpreters. If you joined via the Zoom desktop, which is what we recommend, you should be able to select gallery view. Gallery view is the best view, so you can see all of our great panelists today. You should be seeing four of them on the screen with me today. This will be recorded today, the webinar recording will be posted to the End Abuse of People with Disabilities website within a couple of weeks. There are no materials for today's discussion other than really a record of attendance, which I will put the link to in the chat to make sure that everyone has access to it. Again, if you'll need a record of attendance you can find it there. I'll also likely after the session put in a contact list, so that you can reach out to the two collaborations who are speaking today. Our presenters today are folks from Project Peer Two and Kansas Beliefs. And I want to make sure that they have a chance to introduce themselves. So I'm going to go around with each of our panelists and have them introduce themselves. I wanted to start, let's start with Thelma. Thelma can you share your name, describe yourself, and share where you're from, and then the work that you do? THELMA MCGRANE: OK. Hi, my name is Thelma McGrane, and I'm from Washington D.C. And I am on black shorts, a blue t-shirt with a white eagle trim and navy blue. And on the blue t-shirt, it has my company that I get my service name on it, which is Hope Found. And that's it. ASHLEY BROMPTON: And Thelma what do you do for work? THELMA MCGRANE: I serve on a lot of boards and committees in D.C. Project Peer Two and this one Vera Institute and several other, and most important project action, which is our adults self advocacy group here in D.C. And some other boards. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Awesome Thanks Thelma. Kelly do you want to introduce yourself? KELLY SMITH: My name is Kelly Smith and I'm from Lawrence, Kansas and I work at the self advocate college in Kansas. And I am on black short, penguin socks, and a blue shirt with writing on it and different people in wheelchairs ASHLEY BROMPTON: Thanks Kelly. Colin, do you want to introduce yourself? COLIN: Yeah, sure. My name is Colin Olenick. I have on a dark blue t-shirt from Zombie Burger in Des Moines, Iowa, so if anybody's out there from Des Moines. My job is-- I'm the legislative liaison for the Self-Advocacy Coalition of Kansas. I work with legislators, trying to get policy passed to improve the quality of life for people with disabilities. And that's what I do. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Thank you, Colin. It looks like Thomas might be having some tech issues. So hopefully the folks working in the background can help him get back on today. We'll try to figure out what's going on with him, and hopefully he'll be back on in a few minutes. And when he gets back on, we'll make sure Thomas has a chance to introduce himself, too. So I want to start the conversation today. Now, we're here to talk about the ways in which people with disabilities can be leaders in this work and do this work in different ways. And it always helps us to start the conversation by what are the barriers to doing this work? What are things that need to be addressed in order to do this work? So I wanted to start, Kelly. You talk a lot about physical access and the ways in which you sometimes haven't always had physical access when you've been trying to do things. You want to share maybe your courthouse story about that? KELLY: Sure. I was sexually assaulted by my neighbor. I went to the courthouse to testify. And I had to go to the bathroom. Well, the bathroom was not accessible. So I had to go down the street to a different place. [INTERPOSING VOICES] ASHLEY BROMPTON: Hold on second, Kelly. It sounds like Thomas is on. Thomas? THOMAS: --hear nothing. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Thomas, can you hear us? THELMA MCGRANE: He said he can't hardly hear, but I can hear him. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Thomas? THOMAS: Now I can't hear you at all. ASHLEY BROMPTON: You can't hear us at all? THOMAS: Oh, I hear you talking now. ASHLEY BROMPTON: OK, so you can hear us OK? THOMAS: I wouldn't say that. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Can you make your computer louder? THOMAS: No, it's not that, because every once in a while, your faces will freeze. And even with the [AUDIO OUT] will freeze. And I can't [AUDIO OUT] and the temperature's not moving every so often. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Thomas, it might be your internet connection might be not good. THOMAS: Lord, Jesus. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Hopefully maybe someone on the support team at Vera can send the call-in number for the webinar so that you can call in on your phone, so that that way, if you lose video, at least you have audio, and you can talk to us still. THOMAS: But I'm going to need you to tell me the call-in number. I don't know how to get into a chat room and all this other stuff. ASHLEY BROMPTON: It would just be a phone call. THOMAS: But I'd need to know the number. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Yeah. We're going to give it to Judith, and then we'll have her call you with it. THOMAS: Oh, OK. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Thank you, everyone, for bearing with us while we have some audio issues. I'm going to really quickly-- I want to make sure that our panelists can access this session. So we are going to really quickly make sure that Thomas can get the phone number so that he-- THOMAS: Because I had to check in like three times. I had to go out and come back in, go out and come back in three times. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Yeah, it sounds like you're having some audio issues, so give me one second. JEANETTE: Ashley, this is Jeanette. I sent Judith the phone number. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Thank you so much. Thank you. So Thomas, I would call in when you get the phone number. And then at least that way, you have audio. Even if your video goes out, we can still hear you. THOMAS: OK. ASHLEY BROMPTON: So while Thomas is working on that, Kelly, we'll go back to you to talk about just-- would you mind starting your story over? I'm sorry. It's just-- KELLY: No, no. ASHLEY BROMPTON: I'm a little distracted. We want to make sure Thomas can get on OK. KELLY: Hold on-- I returned to the courthouse testify with Ray Petty. That's a National expert on the ADA. And they stated that they had not heard that the restrooms were not accessible in 27 years. With tears in his eyes, he stated the main floor would have-- the employees would have on the fourth floor. And they said that they were going to make all the restrooms in the courthouse in Douglas County court building accessible. ASHLEY BROMPTON: That's great. So you were able to make change, but you also faced a barrier there at first. KELLY: Right. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Even the courthouse wasn't accessible. KELLY: Right. ASHLEY BROMPTON: And so you had to overcome that. And I know that there were some concerns for you there. And when we talk about physical access, we also talk about transportation and access to transportation. And I know you have a story about when you were doing-- you were at a conference, and you couldn't get access to transportation. KELLY: Yeah. We went to a sexual assault conference in DC. And I couldn't get accessible transportation. So they had to figure out something else so I could attend the meeting. ASHLEY BROMPTON: And it took you a long time to get transportation that day, right? KELLY: Like two hours. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Yeah, just to go a couple of miles, because they didn't get you the transportation that you needed. KELLY: Right. ASHLEY BROMPTON: So it's important to think about these things. And Thelma, I know you talk a lot about plain language because you've had times when you've been in meetings where you didn't understand what was going on because no one was using plain language. Do you want to share the story from the Quality Trust Board that you told me? THELMA MCGRANE: OK. When I first started on the Quality Trust Board, I would listen. And I didn't know because I didn't know where I could ask questions or whatever. So I would listen and do whatever. But then I started dozing off to sleep and stuff. And the chairperson of Quality Trust and the chairperson of the board met with me and asked me why. What happened? And I said, well, I ain't never been on a board like-- I ain't never been on a board where-- I didn't know where I can speak up and do or whatever. And they told me that I had to speak up and ask questions, ask people to break it on down if I didn't know. Because I'm not one to sit up there for a decoration and act like I know everything, what's going on, when I don't. Because all these big, fancy abbreviations or government words that people use I don't understand. So if you don't break it down to me, I'm not going to stay there, because I'm not staying there for no decoration. ASHLEY BROMPTON: So you told them that they had to explain things to you because you just didn't want to-- you don't want to-- THELMA MCGRANE: Well, no, but they-- ASHLEY BROMPTON: --what was going on. THELMA MCGRANE: Yeah. When they found out that I-- they met with me, and they asked me why I was doing that. I said because I got bored. And I didn't know that I could ask questions and do all that. And they said, yeah, you can ask questions. And I said, I need someone to meet with me before each meeting to go over the agenda and explain to me what's going to be talked about, what's going to go on, or give me an idea about what's happening. And then the chair of the Quality Trust Board, Tina, come down, and she did that. And the head of the board, Bob Dilistane they met with me. After meeting with me, they made sure that somebody met with me before each board meeting to explain what was going on. And then they told me if I didn't understand, that people were using those big, fancy government words or initials, that I could interrupt and ask them please to break it on down. It's just so that people could just look at me and say, OK, Thelma, this means so-and-so. This means the department of-- like DDS. This means the Department of Disability Services. So I'm just using that as an example of what they would say to me. ASHLEY BROMPTON: So, Thelma, you're sharing the barrier, which is that you don't-- people don't always make sure you understand. But you're also sharing the solution, which is you need to spend more time doing prep work. You need to tell me what things mean-- all that kind of stuff. THELMA MCGRANE: Yeah. And then no matter-- now, whatever board I go on, they don't have to tell me to stay there. I ask, and I interrupt and be nice about it. I say, excuse me, but what do so-and-so mean? And now a lot of people just look at me, and then they'll say, oh, Thelma, that means so-and-so, because I guess they look at the expression on my face. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So we're hearing from the interpreters that it would be helpful if you talked just a little slower. KELLY: OK. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Just because sometimes it's hard for them to keep up. But Thomas, it looks like you're back. So I want to make sure you have a chance. You want to introduce yourself? Tell us who you are, describe yourself, where you're from, and what work you do. THOMAS: OK. This is Thomas Mangrum. I'm an advocate, and I sit as co-chair of Project Action. We got two chairs and two vice chairs. And we basically got two of everything. And I serve on a lot of transportation committees. I'm on the group remodel Transportation Committee. I'm on there also. And I love the work that I do or whatnot. So I'm a Black man, what have you-- proud Black gay man, OK? So I serve-- so when going to the meetings and stuff that I go to, sometimes I have been at meetings where they just wanted to say, could I have a person with a disability there? And when I tried to speak or whatnot, they tried to talk-- loud talk me, talk over me, try to ignore me. And then sometimes I had to raise my voice to really get their attention, what have you, because they'd be in a meeting just talking to each other. And they'd be trying to blank me out, but I'm supposed to be a part of the meeting also. So a lot of times, people just want you there just to say that you're there or whatnot. About me being so sexy. They just want me to be a decoration for them. But I don't have time to just be a decoration or what have you. I know I beautifies the neighborhood when I leave my home or what have you. But when I'm at a meeting, I'm there to work. I'm there to contribute by having a fight for what I believe in. So the thing is, so it's hard to -- (background noise) people to respect you. I do ask for them-- KELLY: --telephone line. THOMAS: --to-- that was my phone. KELLY: That was Thomas's phone. THOMAS: I do ask for them to get with me before the meeting so I won't be lost in the meeting, what have you. And I ask for them to treat me with respect or what not-- don't have people loud-talking me and acting like they don't want me to say anything you see? But they will do that sometimes. COLIN: Right. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Yeah, so-- THOMAS: I'm sorry. That was my baby brother calling me. That was my brother calling because I had death in the family. One of my family members died, so I got to take the call. ASHLEY BROMPTON: I'm so sorry to hear that, Thomas. Feel free to mute yourself and take whatever call you need to take. That's OK. We appreciate you being here today and spending some time with us in whatever way you're able to. So you all are talking about barriers, and you're also really talking about some solutions that you all have identified. And Colin, one of the things you talk about a lot is how during COVID especially, technology has been really challenging. And then you also talk about some of the ways in which you've been able to overcome that and start to learn more about technology. You want to share about that? COLIN: Yeah. When this whole thing started, I didn't know what Zoom was. I didn't know what video remote work was. I didn't know what video conferencing was. It's kind of difficult to work with-- Zoom is relatively easy. But there are so many different video conferencing services that some of the equipment you need to have to work with those is sometimes hard to get. And it can be confusing. It's very confusing. But I mean, with help from my-- people at work and people like Jamie and others, I've been able to successfully work from home and visit Lawrence and do advocacy work at the legislature in Topeka without actually being there. So I've overcome so much in the work world changing. And that's a good thing. But technology can be a barrier for people, either not getting it or not understanding how to use it. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Thanks, Colin. We're going to pause for an interpreter switch. I apologize to the interpreters that we got a little sidetracked dealing with all of that technical stuff. So you all talk a lot about needing to build relationships and relying on relationships with other people and-- in order to have meaningful relationships. Does anyone want to talk about why that's important? KELLY: I guess I could start. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Sure. Go ahead, Kelly. KELLY: My name is Kelly. And when all this happened, I had just started this grant. And I was sexually assaulted. And I had triggers. And I don't think I could have got through it without many breaks. It was a very dark day in my life. But my co-workers and my family just gave me time to be there and get to them. And now, I tell my story to empower people. ASHLEY BROMPTON: And they believed you and supported you. KELLY: Yes. Believing is a big thing with people with disabilities. Well, it's anybody, but especially people with disabilities. THELMA MCGRANE: Agree with that. THOMAS: That's right. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Right. And you all talk a lot about needing to come in really early in the process, and not wanting to be brought in later. Why is that important? THELMA MCGRANE: This is Thelma. I can take it. I think it's important because we just as important as any one else. We might have our disabilities and our physical challenges, but we still is a human being. And we want to be respected and treated with dignity and respect. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Right. And you don't want to just be brought in after everything's already done and not be able to give your real opinion on it. THELMA MCGRANE: No, I don't. And I don't want to be sitting on nobody's board for a decoration. THOMAS: Me neither. THELMA MCGRANE: If I want to be sitting somewhere as decoration, let me be in my own house and be comfortable, so if I'm sitting for a decoration, at least I can go to sleep. THOMAS: Yeah, I could be sitting for decoration for a special guest that comes over. Hey. THELMA MCGRANE: Hey. ASHLEY BROMPTON: So a few of you have talked about needing to prepare in advance for things. And we prepared in advance for this webinar a lot. I think some of you all were annoyed with me with how much we prepared for this webinar. THELMA MCGRANE: Lord only knows how much. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Go ahead, Thelma. I think you were going to say something. THELMA MCGRANE: No, I just said, Lord only knows how much. ASHLEY BROMPTON: How much we prepared? THOMAS: How much we was annoyed, right, Thelma? THELMA MCGRANE: How much we had to put up with to be prepared. ASHLEY BROMPTON: But why is it important to prepare in advance for these things? THELMA MCGRANE: Because so we'll know how to say it and what you-- what to say. THOMAS: And so especially when we go to talk to congressmen and congresswomen and stuff like that, which is part you got to do a lot of, we want to be professional as much as possible. We don't want them looking at us and going like, oh, they got disability. They don't know what they're doing because they're not prepared, or what have you. So we got to go there and be prepared as much as possible, all for them to take us seriously. THELMA MCGRANE: Yeah, you got that right, Thomas. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Colin, what do you do to prepare? Because I know you work a lot with legislators in Kansas. What do you do to prepare for those conversations? COLIN: Well, I basically, depending on what the issue is, I study up on it. That comes pretty easy to me. Then I write written testimony. But I also just-- really, for me, it's joining the issue. And then I can put my own-- I can express better how I feel about something. I can really get passionate about it. I just feel I have an ability to be able to articulate to people who would otherwise not know or necessarily care about an issue. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Yeah. So it just helps you make your own opinions and make your own decisions about what you want to do. COLIN: And I try and look at all sides, the pros and cons, so I understand where the people that might be against something I'm for are coming from. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Yeah, right. Well, thank you all so much for talking about some of the things you do to overcome some of those access barriers that we talked about. I want to recap some of what you guys said, which is believing you, trusting your experiences and your opinions, building relationships with people so that there's trust between you, getting involved, making sure you're involved from the beginning, and not bringing you in later to be decorations and not be important. You talked about preparing in advance and the need to have the ability to feel like you know what you're talking about and not feel surprised by anything. Is there anything else that helps when you're working on boards or with other organizations to make sure it's accessible for you? [INTERPOSING VOICES] THELMA MCGRANE: --they want us on there, be listening to me. I'm not going to be going on there, and you act like you listening, then you not paying me any attention. That's not going to fly. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Yeah, so pay real attention, use plain language. And Kelly, I'm so glad that you said plain language, because that's something that all of you really want to talk about today, because it's so important to you doing the work that you do. What is plain language, Kelly? KELLY: Well, when I got my subpoena in the mail, it said, you are commanded to be here. And I thought I was going to go to jail. And I thought I was going to be arrested. But Stephanie said all it means is to be there. And it took her good 45 minutes to calm me down. I said, why didn't you just say you need me to be there? ASHLEY BROMPTON: Yeah. So plain language is just breaking it down. Thelma, I know that's your slogan. You want to say what it means to you? THELMA MCGRANE: Sure. But to me, it's like make it simple as possible, because a lot of people are so busy using those big, fancy governor words and abbreviations and whatever, you have to break it on down as simple as possible for me if you want me on it. If you don't, don't ask me. THOMAS: And a lot of times when I ask people to explain stuff, I want to find out that a lot of people in the room-- they don't understand what the big words are. They're just acting like they understand, like they've been to college or whatnot. But just because you've been to college or university, that don't mean you understand all of them big words that people come up with, especially for somebody to come up with a big word that they just made up. People be making up their own big words and meanings. And nobody knows. So a lot of times, when you do ask people to break it on down, you're not just helping yourself, but you're helping everybody that's in the room. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Right, exactly. Plain language helps everyone, right? It doesn't-- THELMA MCGRANE: And even-- it might sound simple that we do that. But a lot of people that work in this field-- because I know one guy I got in an argument with, because I'm in a meeting, and he's sitting up there saying-- still saying-- using people as human beings. He put the equipment before with a male or female. He don't use human being. He used the equipment like they're a human being. THOMAS: Yeah. THELMA MCGRANE: So me and him got into a big argument about that. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Yeah, so when we talk about plain language, some of what we talk about is that it's easier to break things down when you have a good relationship with each other, when you can have an open conversation about what you're talking about, right? It's easier when there's trust there. Why? THELMA MCGRANE: But it's not just with each other. It's not just about with people with disabilities. It's people without disability that's supposed to be knowledgeable enough to be able to deal with us. Them people, professional people, some of them don't know how to deal with us. THOMAS: Right. It's just like-- perfect example. A lot of times with deaf people, they say that they're not the one with the disability. Everybody else is the one with the disability because we're not trying to learn how to communicate with them or what have you. And that's the way it is when we're all people with disabilities. You got to take the time and have the patience to take the time with us. We is not a burden. Stop looking at us like we are a waste of space. Stop looking at us like you're doing us a big favor, when a lot of times with the committees, you're getting paid to work for us and help our lives be better than-- be better with you. So why you acting like you're doing us a favor when you getting a paycheck? And a lot of us advocates, we're not getting no paycheck. We're doing it for free, and we fighting for our rights. And we deserve to be heard. We deserve to be heard. ASHLEY BROMPTON: And we're getting a lot of people agreeing with you guys in the chat. I'm going to read some of the chat comments because I think that they're really helpful. Someone did say, "Plain language helps everyone." Someone wants to compliment Thelma for saying break it on down. They really like that. They think it makes it simple-- what plain language is, right? It's a simple way of describing it. Some other people are saying that they love your honesty, and they appreciate you spending some time to talk to us today and share your points, because some of these things some people haven't thought of before. So I just want to share that from the chat because we've got some things coming in. And I know sometimes you all aren't seeing it, so I want to make sure I'm sharing that with you. THELMA MCGRANE: Well, thank you. THOMAS: Thank you. KELLY: Thank you. ASHLEY BROMPTON: So I know we have some more questions for you all. I want to pause for an interpreter break. I know we're a little bit early. But since we're in between questions, I'm hoping it'll be OK for us to do an interpreter break. Great. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. So we talked a lot about plain language. And one of the things that we're going to do for our participants today is put some resources in the Materials folder after the webinar that you all created and that other people have created about how to talk and write in plain language in case that helps folks with figuring it out. But Kelly, you talk about how it's really important that people not be afraid to ask questions when they're trying to put things into plain language. Can you talk about that a little bit? KELLY: Yeah. There's a person in Lawrence that sits there and pats me on the head and says, yeah, God will make you walk the next day. And that's really offensive to me because they just look at my scooter. They don't want to listen to me at all. And that's very frustrating. THOMAS: Right. And that ticks me off, too, because people be thinking because I'm a wheelchair user, that means I'm broken. They can't accept me for who I am and what have you. They seem to think because they can run up and down the street, walk every place, they're like I'm worthless-- that they better than me. You're not better than somebody because they might have a disability mentally or physical or whatever their disability is. You're not better than they are just because you got that. So stop talking to me and treating me that way, what have you. Stop asking me questions about my disability when I know you're going to forget about it because you could care less. And they come to me with the same questions again and again and again and get mad with me when I snap at you and go like, hey, just because I have a disability, you're not entitled to all of my medical business, just like I'm not entitled to all of yours. So if I don't want to tell you something, accept that and give me the help that I ask for when I need it. But you're not special. And like I can help teach classes on-- with people that going into-- to be aids and stuff. Me and Thelma, we have done that. I tell people, don't be-- to put out people's private business. And in the class, they be going like, what should I tell somebody? And I say, tell them whatever you'd tell them if somebody tried to get in your business. Or use a colorful word that you would use for yourself because they're not entitled to somebody's business because they have a disability. So if they're not entitled to yours, why do you think perfect strangers that's entitled to somebody's business because I have a disability? You should not put it out there. Where aides have done that with me, I've fired them on the spot. You see? So that's not right. But they know by the helper law they're not supposed to be doing that. But they think everybody's entitled to your business when you have a disability. And they're not. ASHLEY BROMPTON: So Thomas, you're talking about boundaries and needing to have privacy and the same thing that anyone else would have. And that if I work with you, that doesn't mean that I deserve to know everything about you the same way I don't deserve to know everything about anyone else that I work with. THOMAS: Right. Right. THELMA MCGRANE: And with me, I let them know straight up, because one time I went to a new doctor, and it goes back to what Thomas said. So I went in there, and I was sitting in an exam room, waiting for him to come in-- waiting to come in. Still, he introduced himself and said that he Dr. So-and-So. You know what he did? He looked at my wheelchair. And then he didn't even speak. He looked at my wheelchair, and he said, oh, excuse me. Where's your big, white book? He never said, what's your name? My name is Dr. So-and-So. That was very disrespectful. I went off on him in a nice, nasty way. I said, wait a minute. I said, wait a minute. Hold up. What you talking about? He said, ain't you from a nursing home or a group home? And I said, no, I'm not. No offense. I live in my natural home. Yes, I have assistance with my health aide. And yes, she not with me 24/7. So therefore, she don't know my life and my personal business better than me. So when I'd read him, he had to regroup himself. And then he had to start all over again. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Yeah. So I want to shift a little bit. A lot of what you all are talking about is that you have the same rights to privacy, the same rights as everyone else in every way. THELMA MCGRANE: That's right. ASHLEY BROMPTON: And that you're respected in work. And I want to talk about how people make decisions and the right to make decisions. And Thomas, I know you tell a story about a person that you knew who had never really had that right. Do you want to share that story with everyone? THOMAS: Yeah. When I was with Developmental Disabilities Counsel in DC, they have different things that they set up for people to come to or whatnot. And they always ask people, what do you want out of life? And this guy, he started crying. And he'd been part of the system, I think, all of his life. And we asked him, why was he crying? And he said that was the first time anybody ever asked him what he wanted. So everybody always made decisions about his clothes, everything. Nobody cared about whether or not he liked what he was wearing, he liked the food that he was eating, anything. They made decisions for him. They didn't let him have a voice in his own life. And that's wrong, regardless of what your disability might be. We all is entitled to have a voice in our lives. And they didn't allow them to have one, and he was crying about it. So that's really sad. [INTERPOSING VOICES] It took them that long, and nobody asked him. And we was the first one to ask him. No one had asked him that-- what he wanted out of life. ASHLEY BROMPTON: And people sometimes don't get that-- why it's so important to make sure that people have power over their own lives and have the ability to make decisions. And even in work, that's why it's important that you have the information that you need, right, Colin? So that you can then go make the decisions. You talked about you try to do all your research-- that then you know what you want to talk about, and you make those decisions, right? COLIN: Yeah. I just try and figure out as much as I can about an issue, so I can make an informed decision instead of just saying yes or no to something. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Right. And that's why it's so important that you all have the information that you need so that you can make good decisions for yourselves. I'm seeing a lot in the chat. I want to make sure it's coming up. There are some people who are in the same shoes as you all and are just really relating to what you're saying and saying they've gone through similar experiences and that they have dealt with similar things and are really appreciating that you're being honest and sharing these experiences, because it's also uplifting what they've experienced in their lives and in their work. So I want to make sure we're uplifting that so that you all know what they're saying. And they're really thankful that you're sharing this stuff with them. So I want to talk a lot about-- a little bit about-- what the people that work with you do to make life easier and to make the work more accessible for you. People like Indira and Judith and Jamie, who we're going to meet in just a few minutes-- what do they do that makes it easier for you to do the work that you do? KELLY: I guess I'll go first. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Go ahead, Kelly. KELLY: Well, Jamie gave me-- THELMA MCGRANE: Excuse me, Kelly, but we can't see nothing but your mouth. KELLY: Is that better? [INTERPOSING VOICES] Sorry. THELMA MCGRANE: Go ahead. KELLY: Jaime put the paperwork into bullet points and makes it simple words. And then we go over it on Zoom the day before or two days before. And that's really helpful for me. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Does anyone else want to share what makes it-- COLIN: Yeah. I feel I've had a bit of a sheltered life in just that I am exposed to like-- Jamie-- like, I knew what LGBTQ means, but I didn't know what the plus meant. And so Jamie was able to help break it down for me and help me understand what words mean and how they're used and whatever, just so I can better understand something. And it's just-- he helps me break down how many hours I've worked because we use decimal conversions and stuff like that, because math and I are not friends. So, yeah, I mean, she just is indispensable, you know? ASHLEY BROMPTON: Colin, math and I are not friends, either, so I understand. COLIN: Thank God, yeah. ASHLEY BROMPTON: We've got some people on the chat also saying math is friends with no one. [LAUGHTER] KELLY: Yes. I like that. COLIN: Yes. But it is stuff like the conversions and stuff. I mean, just without that help, I couldn't really do my time card. I couldn't really work efficiently or something like that, you know? ASHLEY BROMPTON: Yeah. And what about things like helping you use technology? Do people help you do that in a way that has been particularly helpful? THELMA MCGRANE: This is Thelma from Washington, DC. Yes, we had to get on-- one of our people that worked with us, our advisors, Phyllis Hogan had to get someone to really work with us on how to use our iPad and learn how to get on it and all that different stuff. THOMAS: Right, because COVID really threw us into what I call The Jetsons era. You know the cartoon The Jetsons, where they use all the computers to get dressed and stuff like that? I'm holding out for the day that you go into a booth and pick out your clothes, and you be dressed in two seconds. But anyway, the airwaves-- they said on the news that with all these people using the computers and stuff, the system was not prepared for all the work that we putting on them-- children using the computers, adults using computers to work at home, and whatnot. So it wasn't really prepared for all that stuff-- all the airwaves and what have you. We need the help. We need the help to learn even more things about the computers and stuff and how they could work or what not and how we could keep getting viruses on our phones, on our computers or whatnot. Because there are people that can put up viruses just to play if they're bored or what have you. So we've got to have protections and stuff put up in place and stuff. But this virus has been a mess. And me, for one, I like to be with people, not looking at them at a computer. I like to be in their presence. And this thing is driving me crazy. And the virus is keeping us from traveling. And with the committees I'm on, I at least travel like two or three times a year. Now it's been two years of me being at home. I'm not used to this at all, not one bit, this thing, because committees may be asking for me to come and what have you. And sometimes they pay for everything-- airfare, hotel-- and give me a credit card or gift card for food or whatnot. So I'm not used to all that. This is taking away all my trips and conferences and being in touch with people. This is not working that well. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Yeah. So I'm hearing you say it's been harder to do your work in COVID times, just not only because of technology, but just because you feel isolated and separated from people. THOMAS: Yeah. And a lot of people need more therapy now that they feel isolated, especially the elderly, because they can't see-- they're not always able to see their children or their grandchildren. And they say they're-- it's shortening people's lives because they don't have that connection or what have you. So people are dying quicker from now at an early age that it was when we was able to go out and be among each other. So this is not helping. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Yeah. And I think, Thomas, you're talking about something that affects everyone, people with disabilities and people without disabilities. Even we used to travel a lot for work. And we used to see you all at different conferences and things. And we haven't been able to do that. And that's been really hard, too. I think having people around you that can help support you and teach you how to use the technology and do the best you can, given the circumstances, is hopefully a little bit helpful. So at least you have that, and you don't have anything. THOMAS: Right. ASHLEY BROMPTON: So I want to talk about reminders and why reminders are so important. Thelma, do you want to talk about why it's so important that people remind you what's going to happen? THELMA MCGRANE: It's very important for me that Judith and whoever work with me call me and remind me, because Thomas knows, but nobody else knows, because me and him are on so many committees and boards. Sometimes we also-- maybe we can't keep up. And people be calling and saying, oh, you forgot about this board. You're supposed to be on this one right about now, and this and that. So I do the best I can with it. And I'm doing pretty good. But people have to call me at times and remind me about stuff, because sometimes you-- sometimes I'm so used to going out. And right now, I'm only going out like twice a week for fun. So because of the virus, I'm very careful about where I go and how many people are there and try not to be near a whole lot of-- be in a crowd and stuff. THOMAS: And a lot of times, because we are home now, people think that we're not doing no work. I'm doing more stuff on this computer than I ever did when I was going out. And a lot of times, I'm double-booked on meetings. I have people calling me for one meeting, and another person calling me for another one that's happening at the same time. So I don't know where the people get off thinking because you're at home, everything doesn't stop for you. It's more work on the computer-- THELMA MCGRANE: It's more work ever, than ever. THOMAS: --ever had when we was going out. THELMA MCGRANE: Sometimes I'll be double-booked. And I'm like, oh, shoot, I forgot about that. THOMAS: Mm-hmm. And every committee seem to think they more important than the other one. THELMA MCGRANE: And none is more important than the other one because they all important. And we doing the best we can to keep up. ASHLEY BROMPTON: And so managing expectations, right? What do people expect from you? They need to be reasonable and not think that you are super heroes, right? THELMA MCGRANE: There you go because we human beings, and we not a robot. So therefore, we human beings, and we going to forget and stuff. So we just need reminders. ASHLEY BROMPTON: And so one of the things I want to talk about before we move on, the last thing I want to talk about, is having agendas and why it's important to have agendas for meetings and to go over them in advance. Does anyone want to talk about why it's important to have an agenda that you can go over in advance? KELLY: I think I'll start. ASHLEY BROMPTON: OK. KELLY: This is Kelly. And if I don't have an agenda, I have too many appointments due. And then I'm overbooked, like Thomas. And then I forget. And one time, it was a really important doctor's appointment, and I totally forgot. So I have to write down stuff constantly. ASHLEY BROMPTON: And so having stuff in writing in advance is helpful. And then for meetings for work, it's good, because then what's going to come up in the meeting, right? KELLY: Yes. ASHLEY BROMPTON: We are going to pause for an interpreter break. OK, great. Thank you so much. And so before we bring on the rest of your team-- we have your colleagues here today to talk with us, too. But before we bring them on, I wanted to ask you one final question. What do you want people without disabilities to know about working with people with disabilities? And why don't we start with Colin? COLIN: All right, all right, so it's just the golden rule that you've all heard. Treat others as you would want to be treated. That is how we want to be treated. We are not children. We are not here to be tokens or whatever. We're here to do the work. Treat us as you treat your other colleagues and such. It's as simple as that. KELLY: Think I'll go next. You just need-- people just need to treat us with dignity and respect and look at us, and not our scooters or wheelchairs, because that's all we have to get around. But we also have a mind that we can use. And I wish people would do that before looking at my scooter or my manual wheelchair. ASHLEY BROMPTON: How about you, Thomas? THOMAS: Oh, yeah. And make sure you're talking to us and not our aides or what have you when you're speaking to us. Treat us with that much respect or what have you. Even if we go to the doctor's office, sometimes I have to make sure the doctor knows to talk to me and not my aid or what have you, even if my aid is in the room to help me understand what the doctor might be meaning with all these fancy words or what have you. But some doctors, if you ask them to break it on down, they get an attitude. They don't want to do it and what have you. They get so caught up in they medical world that they don't realize not everybody is in that world. So being treated with respect and not trying to block me when I go to talk to somebody, because you don't want nobody to block you. And realize that I have every right to live my life the way I see fit, just like you have every right to live your life the way you see fit. That's what that word means to me. This is Thomas. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Thanks, Thomas. And Thelma, what do you want people to know about working with people with disabilities? THELMA MCGRANE: I want people to know that you working with people with disabilities, we got a disability, but we still human. We still a human being. And we want to be treated with dignity and respect. Think about how they would want to be treated. If they want to be treated with dignity and respect, then talk to us just like you would talk to anybody else and like you would want to be talked to. Now, because if you think about it, some people want you to talk to them one way. And then they look at you because you in a chair or because you use crutches, or you got on glasses. And I let them know, because one time, I was out at a conference, and this radio person, he was talking to me. And I told him, I said, do you realize you got a disability, too? And he paused, and he was quiet for a minute. And then he said, yeah. I said, well, what is it? He said, I wear glasses. I said, thank you, because you wasn't born wearing eyeglasses. So I point it out. I don't care if you act like you don't know. Then you got the right person in me because I will point it out. And if you get mad, oh, well, I've got feelings, too. KELLY: Yeah, that's what I meant to put. We have feelings like everybody else. And this is Kelly. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Thanks, Kelly. And everything that we've talked about today is so important. And I hope that people have been listening to what you all have been saying. And I know that the people in the chat are agreeing with you. And they're saying, we're in the same place. We're in the same boat. And the people with disabilities in the chat who are chiming in and saying they appreciate having a shared experience with you all. And they also-- I think everyone appreciates that you all are willing to say something about it when something isn't the way that you need it, because that helps not only you, it helps other people, too. So I want to bring in the rest of your teams. So we'll welcome Jamie, Judith, and Indira, if you all want to turn on your cameras and audio. OK, so welcome. Hi. THELMA MCGRANE: I don't see Indira, though. ASHLEY BROMPTON: So I want to start by giving you all a chance to introduce yourselves-- your name, a description of yourself, where you are, and what organization you work for. Judith, why don't we start with you? JUDITH: OK. Hi, everybody. You folks are a tough act to follow, I got to say. And that's good. My name is Judith, and I am a white woman of a certain age with short hair and glasses. I have a black and white print top on, and I have a blurred background, so you don't see the mess behind me. I work at the Quality Trust in Washington, DC, which is an advocacy organization in DC for people with disabilities. So it's so hard for me to add anything more. I just I just want to say I've been doing this work for a very long time. And I never have stopped learning from the people I work with if I let myself hear and listen and understand what people are saying. When I started this work, like I said, a long time ago, it was like an extension for me at the time of civil and human rights back in the day. And I've kind of come full circle, and Indira will talk more about that, I hope. Let's see. Wow. Yeah, my strategies are really simple. Like what everybody, it's not rocket science. Just listen to people. Respect people. Give people the dignity that they deserve from the life experiences they have lived. And believe what people are telling you, whether it's about trauma or just everyday life experiences. We all live our lives and go through our lives in a certain way. We want to be treated with that dignity and with that awareness that we're all in this together. I will say that one of the things that I have learned a lot is it's OK, like you all said, to say, you know what? I don't understand what you're saying. I'm totally confused. And it can be empowering when you open your voice up, and you admit that and learn and open yourself up to learning about what it is that you don't understand, especially in this time of COVID. I have learned technology along with Thelma and Thomas. I'm getting better at it. But again, opening up and saying, it's OK. It doesn't make me less of a person. It just makes me a human being. And I don't want to keep going on. I could keep going on, but I won't. And it's just like in the words of Thelma, break it on down. I use that expression all the time now, and it's really, really effective. So, yeah, thank you, all of you. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Indira, do you want to go next and introduce yourself? Again, your name, a description of yourself, your location, the organization you work for, and anything you want to share with the audience about the work that you've been doing with Thelma and Thomas and others in Washington, DC? INDIRA: Sure. Good afternoon. It's great to be with you all. My name is Indira Henard, and I'm the executive director of the DC Rape Crisis Center, which is the oldest rape crisis center in the country and the only one in DC. We are in 49th year. We have been partnering with Quality Trust probably for almost 20 years. It's been a really, really long time. I am, I guess, 5', 4". Some people will call me short. And I'm wearing a striped sweater and some pants and curled up in a blanket, because I have the AC blasting in my house because it's really hot here. I think the only thing that I will add is that what we believe at the DC Rape Crisis Center is that all forms of oppression are connected and that you cannot do this work effectively in silo. And so it's important that when we are working with any type of community that those voices are centered, and not that they're just centered, but that they have a seat at the table. If you are doing this work, and you are not intentionally-- excuse me-- intentionally including the communities that you're serving, then that's a problem. And so we always want to ask, who's missing from the table? I think what has worked really, really well is that we listen to each other, right? And that we can have what I call love with accountability, and that instead of calling people out, we call people in, because we should always be in a space of learning and understanding that the work is ever-evolving. But as folks have mentioned, the experts are those who this impacts the most. And so as we continue to move forward in this process, I like to say that this is not hard work. This is what I call "heart work." And so we are operating from our hearts. We are taking the direction of those that this impacts the most. And so I think it's really, really important that folks are clear that in order to really build effective systems and have quality programming that you have to have a clear sense as to what's happening on the ground. And the micro and the macro have to be connected because that's so, so important to make sure that you're getting it right. So I'll stop there-- so much more I could say. But I think what has been so valuable about the partnerships that we have created in DC is that every step of the way, we've made sure that we've had the right people at the table-- that we have been able to hear feedback and hear suggestions and really move on one accord, as we're really trying to make a mark on this issue. So that's been really, really great, and really looking at things from an anti-oppression and an intersectional lens. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Thank you so much, Indira, for that. Jamie, do you want to introduce yourself again? Your name-- I can't even remember what I was going to have you introduce yourself. Your name, your description, your location, the organization you work for, and then some lessons you've learned in working with Colin and Kelly and others. JAMIE: Absolutely. How's the mic check? We good? ASHLEY BROMPTON: Good. JAMIE: Excellent. So my name is Jamie Clark. My pronouns are she and her. I have short, spiky hair. I am wearing a plaid shirt with red, white, and brown. I am also on the short stature at 5', 3", but I have my tall shoes on today. So I work at the Kansas Coalition Against Sexual and Domestic Violence. I am the Disability Project Coordinator. Kelly, Colin, myself and many others form the Kansas BELIEVE. And the Kansas BELIEVE is truly authentic in all aspects, not only in our work, but also in our friendships. In the beginning of COVID, everything went to technology. And we've heard from several-- Thomas, Thelma, Colin, Kelley, and even Judith-- technology is a barrier. They don't have internet. There's possibly not having the computer or the knowledge on how to use that. So when everybody was in the pandemic, and the stay-at-home orders came out, there is this much-- it's very tiny-- glimpse of what isolation truly feels like, whether that's in the community that is oppressed, whether that is people with disabilities. But it's something small and relatable. And with the Kansas BELIEVE team, we wanted to create an accessible Zoom guide so that everyone could continue to do the work, which is uplifting the voices of self-advocates, especially those that are survivors of sexual violence. And the way to do that is to listen, do your own research, and do the work with them, not for them. And with that, we are continuously raising the voices of self-advocates, people with disabilities, and making sure that they have the information they need to be successful in their communities. Thank you. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Thanks, Jamie. And I did put a link to your website, where I know you're housing the Zoom guide and some other resources that might be helpful. And we'll also make sure that those end up, along with any resources that any of you pass along-- end up in the participant materials folder so people can access them later. So we have a little bit of time for questions from the audience. I know we got some questions during registration. We also have gotten a few really good questions so far today during the session. Why don't we-- we'll start the questions with the questions we got during registration, and then move to a couple of the questions. There's a question for Kelly, Thelma, Colin, and Thomas that I want to make sure we get to. Before we do that, let's pause for an interpreter switch. Great, thank you. So a question that we got both in registration and today during the session was about what victim service providers can do to build relationships with people with disabilities. What ways can they reach out, either to individuals with disabilities or to organizations that serve people with disabilities? Judith, do you want to start us off there? JUDITH: Yeah, sure. Each one of these questions could be their own hour and a half presentation. But I'll try to keep it as short and sweet as I can. And Indira, I'm going to ask you to follow up, I think, from your perspective as a provider of victim services. So victim services providers can connect with local and state disability organizations and agencies, whether it's private or NGOs or government. Look up your local government agency that provides disability services. Let's see. Certainly look up the advocacy groups, self-advocacy groups like the local chapters of the ARC or any other organization in that list. Every jurisdiction has a disability rights provider. Get online and start looking things up. Offer maybe an opportunity for, I don't know, a town hall or roundtable discussions, where you bring people together and find out what everybody may need from everybody else. And invite people with disabilities onto your boards and committees, but in a really intentional, authentic way-- the way Kelly and Colin and Thelma talked about it, not just sitting there pretty as a decoration, really as contributing members who have a unique perspective-- perspectives that really need to be heard. So yeah, that's-- I mean, there's so much more. But I want to give space for everybody. And Indira, is there anything from your perspective you might want to add? INDIRA: Sure. I think the other thing I would add is that when you are inviting people on to any type of committee, I think it's important to be clear around what the internal structure is going to be. What is communication going to be like? How are you going to uphold confidentiality? Making sure that aligns with working with vulnerable populations-- those things are very clear. And I think the other big thing is being clear about what you are asking folks to do, which is really, really important. And I also think when you have folks who are bringing their lived experiences to any type of process as well as folks who may not have those lived experiences, again, I can't emphasize enough just being clear around what that internal structure and what that support system looks like and how you're going to deal with things if they come up in the space, which will be critical. And understanding that everybody is bringing their own experiences to this work. And so I am a big believer of always talking about self-care and wellness and things like that. So definitely checking in with folks offline just to see how they're doing, particularly with those folks who are bringing their lived experiences, and particularly if that's connected-- excuse me-- if that's connected to trauma. JUDITH: I agree. And I guess just to follow up real fast, just don't ask people with disabilities any more than what you would ask somebody without. I mean, I think Thomas or somebody brought that up already. Nobody has a right to hear your experiences, your lived experiences, unless you want to share them. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Great. Jamie, do you have anything you want to add? JAMIE: This is Jamie. I echo a lot of what Judith and Indira have shared. In regards to ways for the community to expand their knowledge, especially with victim service providers and communities, they need to make sure that they have contact with those agencies. I want to learn about what your organization has, that it offers the community, because I need to expand my resource list. In addition, I would like to share what our agency does, because a lot of services that domestic violence and sexual assault agencies provide are not common knowledge in the community. And you need to make sure your buildings are physically accessible. But you need to expand on that. You need to make sure that your forms are in plain language. You need to make sure that they're in large print. That will allow everybody to have accessibility for the forms to fill out for confidentiality. But it also opens up the communication to who you want to invite to the table, which is just as important as where the table is placed. It is something that-- agreed, that you need to have everybody on the same page, whether that takes one meeting or 15 meetings, to make sure that everyone understands what their role is and what they're bringing to the table. Just as important to understand that people need to listen and accept that answer and making sure that everybody is moving forward together and that we're not leaving anybody's suggestions, thoughts, or concerns behind, but they are being addressed. JUDITH: And I'm going to-- I think somebody else said this, too. Just to remind everybody that ADA doesn't stop at the front door. It's not just about a ramp that leads to the front door. It's everything that comes after that as well. ASHLEY BROMPTON: And this is Ashley. Thank you all so much. And also to Judith's last point, also recognizing that ADA accessibility is not always the same thing as full accessibility for everyone. And what does inclusion and accessibility look like? I really appreciate all of those answers. I know that we have some other questions we got during registration. But we got a really good one during the session. And I want to make sure that Kelly and Colin and Thelma and Thomas have a chance to hear the question and see if they would feel comfortable answering it. And it's about the importance of peer support and working with other people with disabilities and if that helps you or empowers you in any way when you're supporting other people with disabilities to do the work. KELLY: I'll start. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Go ahead, Kelly. KELLY: Well, peer support is very important. You know, Stephanie is my boss and my friend. And I came into work one day and told her about it. I think if she would have pushed me, I wouldn't have been willing to go to the courthouse and testify. So she empowered me as well. ASHLEY BROMPTON: So sometimes just having someone to talk to who is your peer, a person you can just talk to that's the same as you. And I know-- yeah. KELLY: And I talk to my family a lot. I didn't even tell my mom at first. I told my sister. My mom goes, why didn't you tell me? I said, well, because I didn't feel comfortable at the time. And she said, well, it was a good thing you told your sister because she was able to help me through that a lot, too. ASHLEY BROMPTON: And so Kelly and Colin, you all work for a self-advocacy coalition. Thelma and Thomas, I think you all are both involved with Project Action, which is also a self-advocacy group. Why is it important that you're a part of those self-advocacy groups? Does anyone want to answer that? THOMAS: To help people-- this is Thomas. To help people learn that they do have the right to speak up, because so many times when you have a disability, especially if you have a learning disability or whatnot, people try to treat you like they better than you or whatnot. I have people in my life who have said that to me-- family members, others, whatnot. And they will treat me like I'm less than themselves. So having somebody, peer support, so I know that you're not by yourself in this. And then they encourage you to speak out. And you, in turn, encourage them to speak out. You're able to fight all this negativity that people be bringing your way because of your disability and how they see you to be or what have you because you might need help getting through life. Just because you need help getting through life doesn't mean other people is better than you. And that's what peer support means to me. ASHLEY BROMPTON: So peer support just gives-- just helps you stand up for yourself and set your boundaries and-- THOMAS: Right. ASHLEY BROMPTON: --recognize the strength within yourself. THOMAS: Yes. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Thelma, Colin, do either of you have anything you want to add? You don't have to if-- THELMA MCGRANE: I do. But I think that peer support is a good thing because we can support each other. And if one falls, then someone-- we'll be there for each other. And that's what we do in Project Action, is we with another group, and somebody from that group makes fun of somebody from our group, oh, no. We not having that. We going to put them in check. THOMAS: That's right. THELMA MCGRANE: We don't play that. I'm sorry. I don't care if you are staff, or you an individual like us. We going to straighten you up quick. THOMAS: That's right. That's right. THELMA MCGRANE: We don't play that way. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Colin-- THOMAS: One time, we was on Zoom, and this guy was disrespectful to everybody. And we had a person who was on there with us, and she had a speech problem. And he was making fun of her. You know, I said something to that fool. We not playing this. You're not taking advantage of somebody that have a speech problem and stuff. And we tell her we love her dearly. And we're not going to let nobody take advantage of her. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Colin, do you want the last word? We're almost out of time. Anything you want to add? COLIN: I would just say the reason we're in this, the reason we're all together, is because it's like we are trying to teach the rest of society what these people already know. I mean, the job I had before this, we operated in the snow. I mean, it was all weather. And if you couldn't get there, you were out of luck, you know? But here, people understand people with disabilities and transportation issues. And just being able to be and express yourself in a safe place-- that is a very important thing for me, and stuff like that. ASHLEY BROMPTON: Thanks, Colin. And thank you all so much. I really appreciate it, you all spending time with us today. This was a really great conversation and I hope not the end of the time that we have to talk to each other, because I think we have so much we can learn from each other and ways in which we can grow together in our work. And I really appreciate all of you in our audience for coming out today and participating. And I know we did not get to all of the questions. We do have some written answers to some of the questions that we didn't get to. I'll go ahead and post those answers in the materials so that folks have a reference for the questions that we were hoping to get to, that we just didn't have time to get to. And if you have any other questions, you can feel free to email us at cvs@vera.org. And we will make sure that those questions get to the right person. Thank you again so much to everyone for coming out today, to our interpreters and our captionists, and most of all to our fantastic panelists. We had such a great time talking to you today. And it's been a real honor to get to work with you on this for me personally. My colleague has posted the link to the materials where you can find the record of attendance and some other information that we're going to post in the chat a few times. Feel free to click on that. We do ask that you complete a brief evaluation. It will hopefully pop up on your screen when I end the session today. If you have a few minutes just to share your thoughts, it's really helpful, because then we can go back to all of the panelists today and share what you all thought and things that they did really well and areas that we can all strengthen together. And again, we really appreciate the work that you all are putting in just by coming today and hope that this is the beginning of a journey to thinking about access and inclusion for people with disabilities. As a reminder, a recording of this session, along with a transcript and any materials that might be helpful, will be posted on the End Abuse website in probably 10 days to two weeks. And again, if you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me at cvs@vera.org. And have a good day, everyone. KELLY: All right, bye. THELMA MCGRANE: --Indira and Ashley for hosting. THOMAS: Yeah.