LIAM ESPOSITO: This is Liam signing. And so the poll results show 85% of folks would rather be 20 minutes early than 10 minutes late. Good to know. I'm in that category too of being 20 minutes early. I'm in that party as well. 

But for those, the 5% who are-- the 15% who would always be 10 minutes late, that's OK. Hey, listen, being fashionably late is A-OK. All right. Hello, folks. Hello, everyone. 

My name is Liam Esposito. My pronouns are he, him, and his, and I identify as a white, Deaf, trans male with strawberry blonde hair that's combed over to the side. I have a beard. I have square, rectangular glasses. And I'm wearing a light blue button down shirt with a blue yellow mixed tie. 

I have a navy blazer, and my background consists of-- you'll see a little bit of a white wall that's behind me as well as some books to the right of me. And on my left is my desk, a brown desk, and in the back wall, you'll see some shades. And you'll also see a blue curtain in the corner as well. 

And I would like to welcome you all to our webinar today. We do have some logistics and some accessibility features we'd like to go over before we begin today's session. So before we begin today's program, we want to talk about some features and some information regarding our Zoom webinar platform. 

So in terms of accessibility purposes and accessibility features on Zoom, here's how you can interact with us throughout the session today. Currently at the moment, because we are using the webinar platform, you should only be in listen view and view only mode. You can see us, and you can hear us, but that means that we cannot hear or see you. 

If you'd like to use the captioning feature, feel free to do so. Please go to the closed captioning symbol that is at the bottom of your screen. And you can also have and access a live transcript if you would like to select that. You can select either Show Subtitle or View Full Transcript as well. 

Today, we have a multilingual space. The presentation will be in English, American Sign Language, and in Spanish. If you need access, in terms of a Spanish interpretation, please do go ahead and mention that in the chat or in the Q&A. And we have support staff that are ready to help you and support you with that. And you might see right now a Deaf interpreter on the screen, and you will also hear a hearing interpreter providing interpretation as well. 

We will be pausing every 20 minutes or so to provide for an interpreter switch, to allow for an interpreter switch. And the reason we do this is to ensure the highest quality of interpretation. If there are any issues or if you have any issues regarding the interpreting services or captioning, please do let us know in the chat. We are more than happy to offer support and help and any further assistance. 

We also do value complete access in our virtual sessions. And so because of this, if there are any technical issues that will come up, we will certainly pause to address the issue. And if the issue cannot be resolved for any reason, we will go ahead and pause and cancel the session. And if that happens, we will send an email with further information. 

Feel free to use the chat to communicate with one another. But also, if you have a question for the presenters, please do go ahead and use the Q&A pod at the bottom, so that your question doesn't get lost in the chat. If you would like to ask a question in ASL, or if-- and you don't want to use the chat or the Q&A, you are more than welcome to use that option as well. Please do message us, so that we can give you video privileges. But please do kindly hold your questions until the end of our discussion. 

One note about the chat pod, you're unable to copy and paste from the chat. And the reason for this is for security purposes. If you join using your web browser but not the app, that means you might only be able to see-- you'll be in speaker view, which may prohibit you from seeing the rest of the panelists, which means you'll only see the one person on screen. But there will be different folks joining us today. And if you only see one individual, that means you may need to change your viewing options. 

In the top right hand corner, there are options that are provided. You have to select View, and when you do that, you will see that you have an opportunity to select nine small squares. And you're able to choose side by side, gallery view, or speaker view. The gallery view is the best selection, so that you can see all of our panelists today. 

We will be recording today's webinar, and that will-- and all the recording and the materials will be posted on the End Abuse of People with Disabilities website within two weeks. In terms of having a record of attendance and materials from this session, that will be available as well at the end. And that will be located in the chat pod at the end of the webinar today. 

And so now that we have reviewed some of the housekeeping things, I would like to go ahead and introduce our lovely panelists to please join me on screen. So that we can do introductions today. Thank you. 

Great. Hello. Hello, everyone. OK. So now what we will do is we'll go ahead and invite you folks to please introduce your name, your pronouns, and provide an image description, and also please describe your work and the anti-violence work that you do in the field. We'll begin with you, Nancy, go ahead. 

NANCY SMITH: Thank you so much, Liam. Good morning and good afternoon, depending on where you are. My name is Nancy Smith, and my pronouns are she and her. And I am a white woman with brown hair in a Mohawk. 

I am wearing a black v-neck shirt. And to my left, there are a number of pictures, mostly of my dogs. And behind me is a doorway and also a set of shelves that have more pictures of my dogs and some knickknacks. And there is also a storage cube and a plant which I am keeping alive for the first time. 

And I work at the Vera Institute of Justice with Liam and other colleagues who are on this webinar today. And for the past 15 years or so, I have been partnering with advocates and others around the country to end violence against people with disabilities and Deaf people. And since about 2006 or 2007, I have been building intentional relationships with Deaf advocates across the country, working together in survivor advocacy work. And I have also had the opportunity to work on coordinating and supporting interpreters in the work that we do as well. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: Great. This is Liam signing. Thank you so much, Nancy. We're so thrilled that you're here with us. Cat, please. 

CAT FRIBLEY: Hello, all. Super happy to be here today. This is Cat. I use the pronouns she and hers. I identify as a fat, white, middle aged, queer femme. And I have gray and purple hair, and sparkly cat eye glasses, and big hoop earrings, and a bright scarf and sweater. 

I am-- behind me, I have a red wall full of art and plants, and a bookshelf to my right with lots of books and knickknacks. The Resource Sharing Project is a national training and technical assistance and support project that is a collaboration of the Iowa Coalition Against Sexual Assault and the North Carolina Coalition Against Sexual Assault. And for the conference that we'll be talking about today, we worked with our partners on the Sexual Assault Demonstration Initiative. 

And those are the National Sexual Violence Resource Center, NAPIESV, the National Organization of Asian Pacific Islanders Ending Sexual Violence, and the Minnesota Indian Women's Sexual Assault Coalition, MIWSAC. So super happy to be here today. Thanks for creating this space. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: Great. This is Liam here. Thanks so much, Cat. Thrilled to have you here with us today. Kris, you're up. And your cat, Kris and your cat, please introduce yourself. 

KRIS BEIN: My name is Kris. This is Chloe, who, I mean, you've got to say hi to the people before you run away. Chloe is little gray cat who's very impatient and is going to do other things. 

So now I'm here by myself. My name is Kris. I'm a middle aged, cisgender, white woman with black and gray hair, glasses. 

And behind me, I've got a gray wall with an orange curtain and various pieces of artwork on the wall. And if you get very lucky, my other cat will make an appearance. She does love a Zoom meeting. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: This is Liam here. Thank you so much, Kris. Thrilled to have you with us. Val, you're up next. 

VALERIE DAVIS: Hello, everyone. My name is Valerie Davis, and I also work for the Resource Sharing Project with Kris and Cat. I use she/her pronouns. I am a white, middle aged, cisgender woman with brown hair. I had to think of myself for a minute. I have glasses, a gray sweater that has a cowl neck. 

I have gray, beige walls behind me with three framed yellow and gray like geometric prints. And my work with the Resource Sharing Project, as it pertains really to our webinar today, is I coordinated the training and technical assistance for the Sexual Assault Demonstration Initiative Project, as well as worked with the team to coordinate the conference that we have that we're going to be talking about today. I'm just excited to be here with you all. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: This is Liam here. Thank you so much, Val. We are also excited to have you here with us. Amber, please. 

AMBER HODSON: Hello, everyone. I'm happy to be here. My name is Amber Hodson. And I am a white, mid-aged woman with dark brown hair, down here to just below my shoulders. 

I am wearing a black shirt that stops right here below the elbow. Obviously, I'm in an interpreter uniform. I have a plain background that's grayish. Nothing is behind me, nothing on the walls. 

I have been working with DeafHope, stationed in California. We provide Deaf-specific cultural responsive services for domestic violence and sexual assault survivors all over the US. We-- I'm honored and grateful to be a part of the team for a number of years that's providing services for DVSV work throughout the United States. 

I was one of the coordinators for the SADI Conference. And my work over the last 20 years has been in various roles. And I've had the pleasure of working with a fantastic team of interpreters and advocates to learn more about myself. And I'm really excited to see what our work with language justice and disability justice and how it moves in the future. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: This is Liam signing. Thank you so much, Amber. So glad that you're here with us. Raylene, you're up, last but not least. 

RAYLENE LOTZ: Hello. My name is Raylene Lotz. I am a white, Deaf, queer woman. I have salt and pepper hair. I use she/her pronouns. I have salt and pepper hair, and I have a recovering cold sore which is very untimely. But it is there, and you cannot miss it. 

Just like Amber mentioned, I also have a very plain background with nothing behind me. It's about grayish in color. I'm wearing a dark quarter length shirt, and I have a black watch on. I also work with Vera as the Deaf access liaison. I coordinate interpreting services. 

I support any needs in terms of language access. I do interpreting work also. I'm a certified Deaf interpreter, and I am continuing to strive for language justice, just to make sure that we all have full fettered access. 

And in this role, I used to be a freelance interpreter and was a part of the SADI conference. And this was a beautiful example of what true access could look like. And so I'm really excited to be a part of this discussion and talk about how this could be a model and talk about how that's brought us to the place that we are in. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: This is Liam signing. Thank you all so, so much. We appreciate you. All right, if you wouldn't mind turning off your videos, and we'll go ahead and begin the program. 

All right, everyone. This is Liam signing. So I just want to give some-- a brief contextual context in terms of the conference that we're referring to. This webinar is focusing on how our collaborations at national conferences in regards to language justice and accessibility and inclusion, what that looks like in action, and what ways we can be effective, and why it's important. 

And the reason is that there are millions of Deaf and hard of hearing people in this country, in the world. And so for us, we often experience audism, which is oppression based on the fact that we are in the auditory based world. And there's an expectation of using English and spoken English. And the truth is that there's a variety of languages for the Deaf community and within the Deaf community in regarding Black and brown folks. 

There's beautiful Black ASL, and then there's LSM, for [SPANISH]. So there are many different languages within the Deaf community that we would love to honor and amplify. And this is the way that we talk about it. 

And so in terms of mainstream conferences, folks may not necessarily be thinking or be considering the different languages that are within this community. And so there are ways that we can change and grow. And this is where the RSP team, where Cat, Val, and Kris, the three of them were just so-- they were just leaders in terms of coordinating the conference at SADI, the Sexual Assault Demonstration Initiative, the SADI conference, which we'll refer to as S-A-D-I. 

And so it was a project funded conference. And so in this process, they learned about what keys were important for organizations to really embrace transformative justice and how we can center that approach to our work. So this was the perfect place to really try this model. And it was at this conference and in the spirit of what SADI is and in their process. And so this has happen-- and this happened in Chicago in March of 2019. 

And just to give a little bit of background, as a Deaf person who goes to several conferences and have been to many, many different conferences throughout the years, and as a Deaf individual, my experience of going to conferences has often been stressful, tiring. And the reasons are because I have to constantly be advocating and educating and explaining the need for services, simple accessibility services. And so hearing folks are a large-- may not be able to relate or understand. Because they may not be able to understand the type of oppression that we face as Deaf individuals. 

And so when we have conferences where Deaf people are able to attend, this is an opportunity for us to build community. And this is how we're reframing. This is when we're saying, you know what? We're going to go ahead, and we're going to network and connect with people. 

But the truth is that if we want to be able to really shift our framing and really be a positive impact on our community, we need to collaborate in spaces together and work together in solidarity to be able to uplift each other and our work as we move forward in various movements. And so as a Deaf individual, oftentimes when I attend a conference, they either don't have interpreters at the conference. Or there are interpreters there, but they're not qualified. Or, or, or, and about a million other or's. 

And so typically, what ends up happening is that we want to make sure that there's an opportunity to work with interpreters. There's an interpreter coordinator. And you tend to have to inform the interpreter coordinator which workshop I need to go to, to let them plan in advance. 

And I have to look at the agenda and look at the program book and allow and inform the coordinator which ones I have to go to, unlike hearing folks. They can choose whichever workshop they like to go to. Maybe they like to leave early or arrive late or change their mind if they would like to. I don't have that opportunity. As Deaf people, we don't have that luxury. We don't have that experience due to access purposes and the limitations to access. 

And so the SADI conference was the first time in my professional life-- and I am 47. And I've been attending conferences for maybe 30 years now. And this is the first time at a conference where I actually felt like this was completely, fully accessible. And the reason being was because what happened was the planners, the coordinators of the events, of the conference, amazingly figured out how to make sure that every single session had interpreters which meant that Deaf folks didn't have to pick and choose ahead of time or be forced to stay in a room. 

All interpreters were in every single session. And that meant that I could attend and change my mind if I wanted to, which allowed me to have a similar experience to how hearing people experience conferences. And that was the first time in my professional life to be able to experience that. And if I decided after a few minutes that, hey, this was a great topic, but I want to check out another session, that was great. 

I didn't have to interrupt the interpreter and say, hey, could you please come up from being in the front of the room to please move with me to another room? I didn't have to do any of that. Every single session had interpreting access. So that just made me feel really seen, and it just made me feel-- oh. 

Yes? Is everything OK, Rada? Do we need to do an interpreter switch? Great. Thank you so much. Happy to do that. Yes, thank you. Thank you. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: This is Liam here. Yeah. Even we need to be reminded Thank you for that. Yes, every 20 minutes we will be switching interpreters, so apologies. 

OK, Liam here. But this conference felt like the first time that I could be in a space that I felt like it was a community, that I was a part of it, and I wasn't a burden. I didn't have to do a number of things to be in the space. It was incredibly positive. 

And so that sort of brings me to here. I want to share this with you all and how important this is in our anti-violence work and when we're striving to end oppression. Hopefully through our conversation today, we can provide a little bit of insight to our process. 

And we can talk about some things that came up and how we worked through those things that arose to make this experience a very successful one for all participants. Because when all people can participate fully, we all benefit from each other. And we can all lift each other up. So with that said, I'd like to invite Nancy, Cat, Kris, and Val for this part of our conversation. 

Hello, everyone. This is still Liam signing. Nancy, Cat, Kris, Val, thank you. First, I'd like to start with what we were chatting about, just how important it is to develop relationships. 

I want to start our conversation by asking you to share a little bit about how you all got connected, what your relationship is with each other, and what that evolution has looked like. And how did you experience coming together and working together? And I will invite Nancy to start. 

NANCY SMITH: Hi, everyone. This is Nancy. Thank you so much, Liam, for just opening up this space and for sharing your experience. 

As a Deaf person attending mainstream conferences, I feel like we have so many conferences in our movement. And they play such an important role in terms of bringing us together, giving us opportunities to connect, and opportunities for us to deepen our advocacy. So this is just an incredibly important conversation. 

And I do think, for me, as I was thinking about the work we did together, I did keep returning to relationships. I think it was a key element to the work we did. And I had the opportunity to meet Cat, and later, Kris, and later, Val, through the work that we did, largely funded through the Office on Violence Against Women as national technical assistance providers. 

And I think Cat and I met back in 2005 or 2006. We had the opportunity to work on a small project together and I think immediately connected. And that connection really expanded then to Kris and to Val. 

And I immediately was drawn I think to the work of the resource sharing project. Because I learned from that work as well. It informed my advocacy, and I think I found people who really connected in terms of the values that I had. 

And so every opportunity we had, whether that be in person or whether that be through email, I really looked for opportunities just to get to know you all better. And I think for me, I was able to draw on that in our relationship. And I would just say that I had similar connections to Liam and Amber and later, Raylene, and other Deaf advocates that I think also those relationships and what I have learned in working with Deaf advocates as well played a role in this work. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: This is Liam. Thank you so much, Nancy. Cat, would you like to add any remarks on how you developed this relationship with Val and Kris and Nancy? 

CAT FRIBLEY: Absolutely. One of the things that I remember so deeply is the opportunity to be in dialogue with you, Nancy, and with folks at Vera over the years about how we could re-imagine our work to better support Deaf survivors, survivors with disabilities, folks who had traditionally not been being served in sexual assault service programs, often due to issues of audism and access. 

And so from the outset, I think the mind opening, if that makes sense, conversations that we were able to have in spaces together with folks from disability communities, with Deaf folks, with advocates who had been struggling to try to have access to learning opportunities like conferences. It started early on in our work to just be engaged with each other about how our services might need to look different. 

And through that, we did some work communally or in collaboration to support other national Deaf-led organizations and projects. I was able to start meeting more folks from within Deaf advocacy programs across the country as I continued my work both with Vera and then also here in Iowa, which is where I'm located and where the Resource Sharing Project staff who are with me, Kris and Val are located. And in Iowa, we also are based at the coalition which has worked for many years with a Deaf advocacy program. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: Liam here. Thank you. I just want to take one minute. We had a little bit of an accessibility challenge, where the internet seems to have frozen a little bit for our interpreter. So it seems like we're up and running again. Thank you. Valerie, is there anything that you'd like to add? 

VALERIE DAVIS: Thank you, Liam. Yes, I was thinking about this, and there's opportunity throughout the entire time here today to share all the amazing ways that we collaborated with each other and things that we learned. But I will just share about at the beginning of planning the conference, really putting language justice and accessibility at the forefront from our planning at the beginning was, I think, an important element. 

And using the wonderful resources from Vera about planning for accessibility with your conferences, and looking at your space, and your registration forms, and all the other things that are involved in planning an in-person and virtual conference. And just really from the outset, thinking about that was important. And so I just wanted to put a shout out for those resources were such a great help to us and really did guide us in our planning. 

We did a visit to a hotel that did not meet the criteria. And even though we were sort of in a time crunch and really feeling a little bit pressured to select this hotel, so that we could continue on with our planning. By using the materials and the resources that Vera had put out, we were like, this hotel is not going to work for us to meet our goal of creating accessibility and for creating language justice. So we said, no, to that hotel. So from the outset, we were having this be part of our planning and at the top of our mind. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: Thank you. Yes. Hold on just one second. We're going to have an interpreter switch. OK. I think we're ready. Go ahead, Kris. 

KRIS BEIN: This is Kris. As I think about what worked for that conference, the themes that just always come back to me over and over again are about care and attention which is where our relationship with Nancy and Vera comes in. I remember, Nancy, you reached out to us and said, you guys are hosting this conference. We want to help you make it really accessible. And as conference organizers, it just made a big difference to have a colleague that we could go to with questions, a colleague that we knew would correct us when we were going down a wrong path. 

We host a lot of conferences for the Resource Sharing Project. And as I was skimming the attendance list, I see a lot of folks here who host conferences and meetings too. And so I think a lot of you will relate to the fact that, as a conference host, you want to look like you know what you're doing. And you don't want to make mistakes in front of people, and you don't want to ask participants dumb questions. You want them to feel comfortable and cared for. 

And it really made a big difference for all of us that, when we had questions and concerns, we had Nancy and Liam and the whole team to talk to. So we weren't guessing, and we weren't asking any of the Deaf participants kind of in the moment to teach us things. And that required taking care with the relationship, learning from that, and putting in the time. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: Liam here. Well said. I'm wondering if you can share a little bit more about the building-- excuse me, interpreter error-- building the relationship. I want to talk a little bit more about that. 

In the small group process when you're forming a new group, there's a per-- there are several periods. There's the forming and then the storming phase, where you get together and you figure out how to work together, the norming phase. And I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about what came up in our earlier conversations that we had, talked about alignment in our values. 

We talked about trust. We talked about reciprocal learning, managing complex conversations. And I'm wondering if you all could share a little bit about that process of being together, and figuring out that journey to get to the place of norming, and what your experience was like, and how you built trust amongst each other. 

And then another thought that I have is the process itself. Any other thoughts that you want to share would be great. And we're going to have an interpreter swap in about maybe five minutes. So we'll have one person share, and then we'll likely have an interpreter swap. 

CAT FRIBLEY: This is Cat. And I can jump in and just say, Liam, one of the things that makes me think about is certainly as we discuss Nancy's organization and Nancy herself and our team at the RSP and the folks that we worked with on the demonstration initiative, all of us were committed to figuring out how to try to have as much language access and justice as possible, even when we were not experts at it at all. 

And we are, please know, friends, we are not. We were not. We are not. We messed up in so many places all along the way. But one of the core things we learned in the demonstration initiative was often those places where we mess up are our biggest opportunities to rebuild new ways forward and to practice new things. 

And so I feel like there have been fits and starts, if that makes sense, over the years in our attempts at language access. We tried for a multilingual language access at this conference with both Spanish, which had been requested, and also ASL and CDI. Right? 

And one of the things that I just I feel like is so important to that trust piece that you were mentioning and that sort of relational piece is that I knew I didn't know what needed to happen. I knew-- our whole team were really clear we have no idea what to do to make this work well. And we were able to be vulnerable enough to come to our colleagues and say, we're going to mess up. Please, if there are things we can do, will you tell us how to move forward? Both hearing and Deaf colleagues. 

And I just feel like that ability, first of all, to not try to be perfect. As Kris was saying, the last thing you want sometimes as somebody who's trying to host a conference is to appear as though you have no idea what you're doing. And yet, that's exactly what was required for us to just say, we don't know. Please help us figure out how to do this in a different way. 

And then we want to commit to that, commit money, time, energy, flub ups, like all the things that we know are going to happen. And we want to commit to a process of having Deaf advocates tell us what they need for themselves and other Deaf advocates. So that we can build as much of that as possible. I hope that speaks to what you were meaning, Liam. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: Liam signing. It does. Thank you so much, Cat. What I heard you share sparked it sounds like two separate concepts that you mentioned, one being resiliency, and two being vulnerability. 

And I think that you all demonstrated how important it is to embrace vulnerability and know that we are all in this together. Our goal was to lift each other up and lift up our work. And that requires us to be resilient, like you said, Cat. So if you make a mistake, if something happens and it is incorrect, then we be transparent about that. 

And I think that's a beautiful example, because oftentimes people are afraid to make mistakes and afraid to do certain things. And so I think that we understand that that's the human aspect of it. We're not perfect. We're going to make mistakes, and we're going to learn, and we're going to do so together OK. So it is now 2:40. So let's just pause so interpreters can swap. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: OK, great. We'll go ahead and proceed. Oh, Nancy? Yes, did you want to add something? Please, any additional thoughts in regards to what Cat just shared please? 

NANCY SMITH: This is Nancy. I just wanted to add that the I think vulnerability and willingness to learn was moving in all directions. So certainly through the work that I had been doing with my colleagues at Vera, we had hosted a number of in-person meetings and conferences. And we have developed sort of a roadmap for true access at those conferences. 

And I think that we entered into a partnership with Cat, and Val, and Kris that was one where we could draw from that roadmap. But I think I was pretty clear also that every conference is different. And while we have some best practices in place, more often, once we sort of have a commitment and we are aligned around the outcome we want, we really have to sit together and strategize, and figure out what that really looks like in the context of this particular conference with this particular set of goals and this particular group of people, and what we want the feel of the conference to be. 

And so we had so many meetings where sometimes I would say, I have no idea. Let's sit together and figure it out. And it really created a space, I think, of true partnership. 

And we were all contributing to what we were creating, and we were all learning from it. And I think that was really important, and it was really special. It created a real energy to us coming together in the work that we did. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: This is Liam. Thank you, Nancy, for sharing those thoughts. I think, I mean, talk about this roadmap, the concept of a roadmap, it's beneficial. Right? 

And I think about the instance of using Waze or a GPS system, if you will. And sometimes how there might be obstacles that come up in the road, and that GPS is going to let you know, hey, there's a detour. And it's going to reroute you to get to your destination. You still get to your destination. You're still getting to your goal, to the place you're trying to reach. 

And I think, similarly, this is the type of work that we're doing, where there's a lot of detouring in our work. There's a lot of rerouting in our work sometimes. And that's OK. That's really OK, because ultimately at the end, as long as we get to the destination, to the same place, that's really what matters most. So Kris, Val, did you want to add anything further before I move on to the next part of our discussion? 

KRIS BEIN: Yeah. This is Kris. Liam and Nancy, to your point about how things have to change, that we work from a goal of wanting true access, but every event is different. 

And so one of the moments that was really transformative for me at the SADI conference was the night before the conference started. We had a meeting with all of the Deaf interpreters and the Spanish language interpreters. And we did a tour of the hotel, and we looked at every single breakout room we were going to use. 

And in several cases, we moved furniture, because the hotel had set it up the way they thought it made sense. But the hotel wasn't thinking about the number of interpreters that we would have standing at the front of the room with the presenters. And so we moved stuff. 

And the interpreters all had a chance to talk together and with us, as the hosts, about if a person asks a question in Spanish, we need time for that to be translated into English and then ASL and then a reply back. So we got to talk about pacing. And really similarly, in working from a goal and then making whatever adjustments you need to, I think it's good for the participants of this meeting to know that we all got on a half hour early to talk about accessibility and to have really detailed discussions about who should have their camera on when. Because that affects accessibility. 

And we talked about just all sorts of different things with setting up this particular meeting with this number of presenters. And it'll be different the next time we do a thing together. Anne-Marie, I see your comment. I just meant the pace of people's speech, the speed of things, and what we were-- how fast or slow folks were moving. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: This is Liam signing. Thank you so much. Yes, and that's actually a nice segue to the next part of our conversation in regards to how our collaboration and how we work together during that conference really just supported a lot of significant just reinvention of ourselves, if you will. 

And I would like to ask folks, kindly share a little bit about what did that experience of planning that conference, like Kris just mentioned today before us talking and planning. And you named specific ways that your work is shifting. We will have to discuss that a little bit here if you wouldn't mind. What about your work, before SADI, before SADI's conference, and then after, what were some ways that that experience really and that knowledge really just shifted your work? 

On the regular, when you work facing audism, or when you're thinking about access, and what are just some-- what advice would you offer to colleagues that are here with us today that are watching this conversation? We'll start with Val, if you don't mind. Val, please, thoughts? 

VALERIE DAVIS: Thanks, Liam. I was hoping you were going to ask someone else to go first. 

[LAUGHTER] 

Oh goodness, there's so many things. And my head is swimming and full of them. So I will just try to pick a few, and then we will have time for other folks to share as well. 

So definitely before thinking about the SADI conference, we didn't-- even things like getting microphones for conferences was always something that was, if we didn't have enough money in the budget to pay for AV, because we were having like a smaller room or a roundtable, we might let that go. And so that was something that we definitely learned was not a practice that we wanted to keep doing, and to make sure that we always have microphones, and really instructing instructors to use microphones whether they wanted to or not, and framing it as language justice. And that if you're going to be a presenter for our conference, that that is one of the requirements that you're going to have to do. 

One of the roles that I had was working with our presenters. And Nancy and her team graciously offered to review PowerPoint materials and planned activities that were part of all of the workshops. And so we learned and all of our presenters learned a great deal about making activities and presentation style and actual visual PowerPoint presentations much more accessible. 

And that was-- over and over again I heard from our presenters just what a gift that was for them, that again, something that had never risen to the top of their mind and now would always stay there and be something that they carry with them moving forward. Some of the other things that, again, for me, is like really like planning the overall conference, again, and thinking about all of this trying to incorporate it from the outset is even thinking about our directional signage, physical signage at the hotels. 

We had them in English, in Spanish, and in ASL signs. We worked with the hotel to make sure that they had our rooming lists identified ADA kits and making sure that they had enough and rooms for everybody. And really I think, Kris, you mentioned orientation and the meeting that we had with all the interpreters. 

We also had several meetings with hotel staff and with the specific staff who were working with us at the conference to-- like our conference planners but also front desk staff. And having interpreters there when folks were checking in, so that then our Deaf participants automatically had an interpreter there when they checked into the hotel and those types of things. So again, just all of that planning and learning, and the name of our conference was Embracing Change and Growth. 

And I think that we just took that to heart for our own selves is that we were going to embrace that we were going to need to change in order to grow. And that meant unlearning things and learning new things, and that was just one of the really beautiful parts about the conference and our relationship with Vera and you, Liam, and Nancy and Amber and everybody else. And of course, our participants, it was just one of the highlights of my job over the last many, many years. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: Thank you. This is Liam. Thank you so much. So I'll just wait for an interpreter switch. One more person, if anyone would like to comment before we close this part of our discussion. Would anyone else like to comment? Yes, Kris, please go ahead. 

KRIS BEIN: This is Kris. There were just two things I wanted to add to what Val said. Thank you, Val, for a really comprehensive list of things. 

We did not pick random interpreters that were geographically convenient. That is a thing that we have done in the past. I think it's a thing that a lot of folks do. 

But for this conference, part of our investment was to make sure that we were working with interpreters that we knew and trusted or that Nancy and her team knew and trusted. And so Nancy gave us a list of interpreters that she and her team had worked with, interpreters that not only were highly skilled in ASL or CDI but also know our field. 

And we flew them in from all over the country. Similarly, with the Spanish interpreters, we have an interpreter that we've worked with for 10 or 15 years now. That Spanish interpreter recruited some more for us. And so again, we have that team, and we built a relationship with those interpreters. 

And then the other thing that I thought was really important was in kind of orienting ourselves and all of the folks that we're going to be room monitors. So we had several breakout sessions going at a time. So we had our staff and a few other folks helping with handing out evaluation forms, keeping presenters on time, welcoming and closing sessions. 

We also set a really clear expectation for our room monitors that, if there was a problem with accessibility, the monitor was responsible to stop the presentation. And we made that commitment that presentations will not go on until they're fully accessible. And I think that was new for some of our presenters and certainly new for some of our participants. 

But again, if you're going to do language access, you've got to do it right. And all of it needs to be accessible. You can't just have it accessible up until it becomes inconvenient for hearing folks or English speaking folks. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: This is Liam. Beautiful, beautiful, for sharing that information out. Thank you so much. So I'd like to go ahead and invite Amber and Raylene to kindly join us. And folks, if you wouldn't mind turning off your cameras, we'll rejoin in just a moment. Thank you. 

OK, great. This is Liam signing. We have another interpreter switch in about five minutes, but we'll go ahead, and we'll start. So Amber, Raylene, welcome, welcome, welcome to the space. If you wouldn't mind just sharing a little bit about who you both are. 

You're both Deaf and hearing interpreters, but also give a little bit of a background of your work. And just give a general idea and context in terms of what kind of interpreting work that you both have done and your experiences regarding that, why it's important to have a team, what that means. And if you could just talk about some of those points and just share also, as well, your experiences with the SADI conference. We'll start with you, Raylene. 

RAYLENE LOTZ: Hi. Yes. So as a Deaf interpreter, I have worked for-- let's see-- eight or so years professionally. But I have worked as a Deaf interpreter for even years before that. 

And as a freelancer, I would do all kinds of settings, mental health, medical, DVSV work. I've worked in a school setting and many, many other areas. And so that was my typical experience. 

I'd also had some experience working in conferences. I've done some Deafblind work, pro tactile work. And that's been generally my experience. So your question was more generally focus as my experience as an interpreter? Right? 

LIAM ESPOSITO: And if you just wouldn't mind providing, yes, your experience as an interpreter, as a Deaf person experiencing interpreting services, but also being a certified Deaf interpreter yourself. Right? 

RAYLENE LOTZ: Absolutely. I think that what helps is prep materials, having a good sense of what the presenter is going to share, even if it's as simple as what the meeting is about, what kind of job this person does. That allows for me to provide better quality access. 

It's also really helpful to know who's in the room, the audience. Is there a conflict of interest possibly for us that are going to be there? Because our community is really, really small. So we often have to think about what kind of relationships have been formed. Amber, you may want to have something to add. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: Amber, before you share out, Raylene, would you mind just sharing with some of our audience-- folks may not be familiar with what a Deaf interpreter means and what that works. Some might be thinking, how can a Deaf interpreter provide services? Would you mind just giving a bit of a description about that? 

RAYLENE LOTZ: Thank you for that question. You're right. I guess I dived right into it. So as a Deaf interpreter, I essentially function very similarly to a hearing interpreter. 

A better way to explain it is that a Deaf interpreter will work with a hearing interpreter and is able to better accommodate a Deaf audience, because sign language is my native language. I'm able to make sure that the utmost clarity is provided. And so I'll work alongside a hearing interpreter so any-- and it could be other languages. Right? 

And so I might be working with an interpreter who speaks a different language. Oftentimes, we see Deaf people having to do what's called code switching when they're working with somebody who is a hearing interpreter. Working with a Deaf interpreter means that they can give their language as they naturally would like to communicate. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: This is Liam signing. Thank you, Raylene. I appreciate that. And for folks in the audience who are with us today, you have actually seen a Deaf interpreter on the screen with us providing services. 

We have two Deaf interpreters, and we also have two hearing interpreters, as well as two Spanish interpreters. They are not on screen, but they are providing services behind the scenes. And so what you're seeing right now-- and actually what you don't see, rather, is that hearing interpreters are actually feeding, which is an interpreting terminology, where hearing interpreters are providing information to the Deaf interpreters and to their colleagues. 

And so what's different for us as Deaf folks is that-- and I'll tell you I have had many, many skilled, incredibly just great interpreters, children of Deaf adults who identify as CODAs, where ASL's their first language. And they're still hearing privileged and still hearing identified, but Deaf interpreters are able to catch nuance. And they're able to express in their natural identity and in the way in which they express themselves. 

And so that is really a critical part of providing services. Because they are members of the community as well. And so when we're looking at language justice and we're looking at language within the Deaf community, we are looking at Deaf interpreters who have-- we have a beautiful way of honoring and celebrating that language and that identity. And so Amber, if you wouldn't mind also, just give a brief background and introduce yourself as well please. 

AMBER HODSON: Absolutely. This is Amber signing. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: I'm so sorry. This is Liam. I'm so sorry, Amber. Now we're doing an interpreter switch. It's 3 o'clock, if we could switch interpreters please. 

This is Liam. It's like Cat, who had just admitted before, like sometimes we make mistakes. And sometimes we make decisions, and sometimes I need to be transparent and say, so yes, now it's time to switch. Thank you so much for that reminder, appreciate it. 

AMBER HODSON: Amber signing. Yes, I am one of those CODAs that you speak of, Liam. I'm a child of Deaf parents, and I have had access to information and language in different ways. And I think that people don't realize the majority of the field of sign language interpreters historically has mostly been hearing folk who have learned sign language later in life. 

And so what that means is that it's their second language. And they don't have access to ASL in ways that is most comfortable and is most appropriate for Deaf people. And I think, Faith actually mentioned about the difference between a hearing person signing and a Deaf person signing. There's absolutely a difference. 

And I think a lot of that is because many of us are second language learners. And they don't have the skill or comfort or use, the daily use of sign language, and it makes a difference. So how information is processed is differently. 

I have been working as an interpreter, but I've also worked as an advocate for a number of years. And so I've been fortunate to be in a community with Deaf advocates and other interpreters, and it's been a true gift. I think a big point of our conversation today is the concept of working with a team and partnership. 

Partnership is so powerful. And I think that, as a person in the field of interpreting, I remember when I was young. I started my work many years ago, and we didn't have that frame for our work, being in a team, working alongside other professionals. 

And my work as an interpreter is better when I'm working alongside a team, including a Deaf interpreter. So that we're able to see each other, and work together, and create a better experience for everyone that's involved. So I deeply appreciate seeing this in action at this conference. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: Yes. Thank you so much. So let's talk about this conference. Let's talk about the SADI conference that happened in 2019 in Chicago. 

What was your experience like? What was your impression from that experience? And while many things were amazing, certainly during that conference, there's always room for growth and things that we could do differently in the future. Right? 

And so as a team, as especially a Deaf hearing interpreting team, what were some things that you recognize or might have noticed that might be helpful in the future to support interpreting services in the future as interpretive practitioners? And what did you see that might not necessarily be missing or but maybe we can go further in depth in the future? What are some things? 

RAYLENE LOTZ: This is Raylene. Quickly, before I jump into that, I just want to mention the question about the difference between a hearing interpreter and a Deaf interpreter. As a Deaf person and a Deaf interpreter, one thing that really stands out to me is, when I'm attending a conference, oftentimes we will see a hearing interpreter on the stage. I'm getting access to information in a delay. 

So I'm trying to discern and interpret from the interpreter's message. So I still am working. I am reinterpreting in my brain to make sure that I fully understand the message. 

Then when it's time for me to participate, to answer a potential question, the hearing members of the audience have gotten this question in their first language. And they're able to participate and answer in their first language. Whereas, me, I'm working off of an interpretation and then interpreting off of that. 

And so when I'm working-- and if I'm an audience member and I'm watching a Deaf interpreter, that allows for me to get access to the content in my first language. And that's really impactful. So now to go back to answer your question, Liam, about this conference, as a Deaf interpreter, being invited into this space was so rare. Because typically, conferences are predominantly run by hearing interpreters. 

And they only bring in Deaf interpreters for very specific needs, whether it be for tactile reasons or specific access needs but not to have Deaf interpreters front and center on the stage. And for me, that was hugely impactful, because that's what language justice is. Naturally, I was thrilled to be a part of this. And I felt that I was a real member of the team. 

Even our hearing team members really made me feel like I was an equal participant. There was no customary behaviors that we typically see in other conference planning. I mean, we did have some bumps in the road, but we were able to do that together and figure out ways to move forward together and accommodate in that way. 

And so it felt like the team was beyond what I've ever imagined, because we were all working from the same goal. And as a Deaf interpreter, I felt valued. I felt like I was ready to participate and work as a member of the team. And that was what stood out for me when I went. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: Amber? Please. 

AMBER HODSON: Yeah. Amber signing. There's so many beautiful things that happened at this conference that really left me with a lot. And so I noticed that, when I've interpreted at conferences in the past, just like Raylene had mentioned, we typically don't have a team working together. 

So for those of you who are watching today, imagine most conferences will typically have one or two Deaf participants. And so they'll bring in one or two interpreters, hopefully two. Hopefully, because the team is really important, like we've mentioned, because of fatigue. We miss information. 

We want to make sure that accuracy is happening, and we want to make sure that the interpreters have enough endurance, just like we're doing today. So they switch off. And that's where you can provide adequate access. So you need to have at least two interpreters if any kind of meeting is longer than an hour. So that's typical. 

You'll see two interpreters assigned for the one or two Deaf participants. They will follow the participants around into a breakout group or any other communication needs. Like let's say one person wants to go to one breakout, where the other Deaf participants want to go to a different one. So then they have to split the team. Or they decide not to do that, because they can't split the team. 

This conference was the first time that I had experienced fully intentional, committed access to having full teams work together. So if there were five breakout sessions, there would be a team of Interpreters for every single breakout session. So there would be a team of two Spanish interpreters, two hearing interpreters, and two Deaf interpreters for each session. 

So you can imagine that-- my math is bad, but that's a lot of people. Right? So that's a team of six for every single breakout session. And we were looking at coordinating large teams of interpreters. That made access feel completely different. 

I see some questions in the chat. So often, we think about bringing in someone who is geographically located, like Kris mentioned. And it isn't enough to do that. Maybe that particular location there's not enough interpreters, especially if you're talking about survivors who have received care or treatment in that local community. There could be a conflict of interest. 

And there may not be enough Deaf interpreters who have the competency to be able to provide that level of quality. So you're looking at quality, competence, knowledge of the content, and people who have been experienced interpreters in DVSV work. So that they understand the specialized language and specialized way that we deliver information. 

We're also thinking about matching communication styles of the participants. So and matching identity and matching in many, many ways as we show up as humans. So bringing in an interpreter that can become my voice, so that I can adequately share my message. 

We want to make sure that access is including thinking about all of the ways that people show up. So that's the other reason why there was a huge investment on the team, and it was really important. And I think one thing that I really take with me in all of my work going forward is how that we are aware and attentive of the wide range of needs and preferences and identities that there are there in a meeting or a conference. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: Yes, Raylene. Go ahead. 

RAYLENE LOTZ: And just to add to Amber, you just made so many excellent points. Even a Deaf person might feel struck by having an interpreter. They may have an experience with working an interpreter, and we were able to relieve that interpreter to find someone that was more appropriate without having to interrupt the flow of information being provided. 

So if a Deaf person decided to move to a different session, they didn't feel-- they didn't have to feel guilty about removing the access. Because we, on the coordination side, were able to provide a seamless level of experience. And then, like you mentioned, identity was also something that was a great concern. Some interpreters didn't feel like they were an appropriate fit. Even though they might have the skill, they didn't have the right identity. 

So we were able to make those types of accommodations as well. And as a Deaf interpreter, skill is only one part of it. Because if you're thinking about what topic is being shared, you want to consider all different types of a person's identity whenever you're coordinating. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: This is Liam signing. Yes. And I just would like to add too about the qualifications and how one is a quality interpreter based on all these different components. And I would like to share with the audience as well that what you're hearing right now in terms of the voice interpretation and the efficiency of that and the quality of that and the reason for that. 

And I just want to reinforce what Nancy, Kris, Val have said is that we're working together to create a more holistic perspective of how we understand a person as a whole. And that includes being able to provide and support interpreters, to provide resources. I mean, Amber and Raylene, I work closely with them. And they are working closely with the interpreters to be able to provide information. 

So therefore, the quality of interpreting is far more effective, because we're able to provide support to the interpreting team. And in an ideal world, I mean, that would be the case every time. Right? But that's not something that can necessarily always happen. 

And so it's important that folks do understand that there are quality interpreters. And then there are-- but however, they may not be a good fit necessarily to the Deaf clients in the space. Folks may not be able to understand each other, be aware of each other's communication style. 

And so therefore, the interpretation might be very different. And if you've both wouldn't mind talking about that, talking about different communication styles, that would be great. Thank you. Amber? 

AMBER HODSON: I think that as much context that you can have and as much of-- this is Amber signing. Thank you for mentioning that, again, just reinforcing our access. I appreciate you letting me know that. This is Amber signing. 

I think intentionally investing-- Cat mentioned this earlier at a previous session that really touched me. I think a lot about this. We talk about investing money, but it's also equally important where we invest our intention. We all have intentions for a beautiful conference, meeting, whatever the event is. 

But it requires a level of vulnerability, and work, and attention towards striving to get trust. I think it's a good reminder that we don't have to have all of the answers. We don't have to know everything or be everything for everyone if we're working in partnership with people. Because then we can rely on the expertise of my team. 

Raylene, for example, meets a need that I cannot meet or I don't know how to meet. Or because of my identity, or my skills, or my knowledge, it just simply isn't there. So I think that partnerships fill those gaps that I don't have. And at the same time, I think about the financial resources that we're putting into something like this as well. 

I think that's something that can come up for a lot of folks who are watching. And I think we're going to talk about that a little bit more later, but it isn't cheap. We're not just simply looking for anyone to come in and do the job. We're really thinking about how we are intentional with our budget and are planning to make sure that we have folks who have the essential needs and experiences and knowledge there participating. 

I see, for example, Liam presenting to you all and having an interpreter that didn't match Liam's tone or style of his light humor or jokes while he's presenting. And sometimes hearing interpreters aren't adequately matching that approach. And so it feels different for the audience, and how the meeting goes is impacted. I think that's especially true for DVSV work. That can have some serious complications and impact on the lives of the survivor. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: Yes. No, absolutely. This is Liam signing. And also as we're nearing to close to wrapping up, I want to be sure that we are answering some questions in the Q&A in regards to this part of our conversation. 

One person did ask, the most important part of the conference is really interaction and engaging and networking with one another in between sessions. Right? Checking out the different vendor tables and such. And so to be able to provide interpreters in between sessions, how is that possible? 

And so can we talk about a little bit why that's important and that part. It's really important question. Thank you so much for asking. Please share your thoughts on that, Raylene, Amber? 

RAYLENE LOTZ: Yeah. That was important. And we had enough interpreters to be ready and available for any possible question or even just a simple conversation that somebody would want to have before or after a session. Sometimes you just want to sit down with somebody and have a quick sidebar. The opportunity was there, and we made it possible. 

And I think what is really important to point out is that we had Liam as the coordinator. And I think that made a huge impact, because we wanted to make sure that this very large team had someone to help facilitate and make sure that everyone was in where the place that they were supposed to be. And let's say a Deaf person wanted to make a change but felt that they had a hard time asking the interpreter directly. They could reach out to Liam and still be fully participatory in the conference. 

And so having those options available were so important. We were there-- they were there overseeing to make sure that we were able to fill in any kind of gaps that might have arose. And so we had full access to communication, all of us, equally. And that was really powerful. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: This is Liam. Amber, you brought up something really important, an important word, money, finances, and budget. Right? 

I'm sure a lot of folks out there are wondering, hm, OK, well, how do we pay for these services? And what does quality services look like in terms of the budget? So would you like to offer some perspective on just any advice and tips that you might have for budgetary purposes and how to be able to coordinate and work that out, Amber? 

AMBER HODSON: This is Amber signing. Honestly, I think Cat and Nancy might have a better answer for how they were able to envision the budget. I think bottom line is that we have to recognize that the space is better when we have full access and full participation, when we have a variety of folks that are able to show up fully as themselves. 

So being intentional where we invest our money, certainly, and our efforts and valuing partnerships are also important. And there's a cost associated with that. I think it depends on where you are, where you're located. The cost of interpreters can vary. 

But again, if you're thinking of interpreters working in teams of two, each are paid. And then the coordinator also, and considering if you need to change hotels, considering microphones, and the whole host of other things that you have to consider for accessibility. Raylene, did you want to add anything about the finances and budgeting about that? 

LIAM ESPOSITO: This is Liam signing. Thank you, Amber. I think in regards to just where we're looking at mainstream programming, a lot of folks are not considering when you want to create the opportunity for a budget when talking about organizational purposes. 

Even though you may not be necessarily interacting with Deaf survivors, it's always good to still put it in your budget and to plan for that every year. That way it's ready, and you have the finances ready and available if the need were to ever come up. And so it's important to always have interpreters supported. 

One audience member did ask a question in regards to Deaf interpreters. Can any Deaf and certified Deaf interpreter interpret Deaf and hard of hearing people of color's sign language? For instance, I know not only there are Deaf immigrants who might use-- who might have moved to America and they use Jamaican sign language and different sign languages. 

Raylene, you might be able to share a little bit more about this, about who are the different interpreters who can interpret and appropriately. And this is also going to go back to tie-in a little bit of what Amber said, being able to provide languages that are more culturally responsive and more culturally appropriate. Would you like to share a little bit about that, Raylene? 

RAYLENE LOTZ: That's a great question. Yes. Not all Deaf people can do this work. And I am-- not all Deaf interpreters can do all work. So for this particular type of thing, that's what we're having to consider, and that's why prep is so important. 

When we ask about preferred language use, that allows for us to find an appropriate interpreter for that presenter or for that participant. Because we want to make sure that everybody is able to participate fully. We consider things like Black ASL. We consider about different regional signs or different country signs. 

And some languages-- some people have a lot of language deprivation, which means they did not have language exposure in their formative years. We want them to be able to fully participate despite of that. And so we want to make sure that this interpreter has a range of skill. 

And that does not mean that all Deaf interpreters can offer that service. So we have to plan well in advance. We have to ask what the needs are and then find the right interpreter for that opportunity. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: And this is Liam. Before, Amber, you respond, I'd like to offer an opportunity for an interpreter switch. OK. Go ahead. Continue, Amber, please. Oh. 

And this is Raylene saying, let's pause too for a Spanish interpreter switch. Sorry about that. Liam's saying, yes, thank you, Raylene. Amber, please go ahead. 

AMBER HODSON: Yeah. Just to add quickly about what Raylene mentioned, it's an important point about pre-planning. And I'll defer to Cat and the rest of the team to talk about how long in advance they started working on this. Because it was a significant time. 

You cannot have the level of quality access if you are planning at the 11th hour. You simply can't do it. You have to plan well in advance to book interpreters, and to give time for that partnership to be there, and to identify what's really needed. So pre-planning is absolutely critical. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: This is Liam here. Yes, thank you, Amber, for that advice. I also want to offer too that what Amber had shared, as much as an advance as possible is definitely key and best. It is actually necessary for the larger scale of things, especially when we're talking about a conference environment. 

In terms of everyday meetings and such, something might come up at the last minute. There might be a crisis. And that's a whole different conversation, a different approach in terms of how to locate interpreters and finding one the same day, if you will. And so that's a different process. But right now, I'd like to go ahead and take a moment to please invite back Nancy and Cat, Kris and Val, to continue with our conversations please. 

Hello, beautiful humans. So as we're nearing the end of our program, I would love to just hear your thoughts on, what do you believe? If you could just name one or two key ingredients that which contributed to the resounding success of this conference and the collaboration effort. Please, we'll start with you, Cat. 

CAT FRIBLEY: Yeah. Thank you. This is Cat, and it's been such a wonderful thing to be able to have these conversations three years after the fact, to hear about where we could have done things better or differently, to debrief, and to imagine, and to honor where we've changed our practices. 

And I would say, one of the things for me, Liam, thinking about it is, myself included, folks often think of interpretation as benefiting Deaf participants. It benefits me. It benefits all of us, when we're able to actually be in community in meaningful ways with each other. And I think that was the light bulb switch on "holy everything" moment for me was interpreters are for all of us. 

And it was that opportunity to think about interpretation not only being for sessions but being for the happy hour that we held, the gatherings. It was about making sure that our contracts were flexible and said, we want you to provide interpretation for folks in hallways, at lunches, whenever you're able. Right? That we have enough people to be able to do that. 

And so for me, that was the switch moment of everything feels different. And I'm so mad at myself that I had to wait until I was 47, 48 years old to have that switch moment happen, but it did. And now, it feels really different to think about it. 

And so I would say, if we can reframe our conversations to just be, we're missing vital parts of our movement, vital parts of our community if we don't really try to center access in these ways. And honestly, the whole reason any of this was able to be successful was because of the Deaf-led team that worked with us, not us. 

We were able to figure out how to support the work that needed to happen. But we were basically receiving a gift from the Deaf-led team of folks who helped us figure out what this looked like. Right? And I just want to say, for me, those things are the things that I just carry in terms of thinking about next steps. 

One other quick thing, you had asked earlier, Liam, what changed for you? And I will say, one of the things that changed for us was having had this experience of hearing from many folks that this was a revelation of a conference for them, not just the Deaf participants who said, this was access like we haven't had. Right? 

But also hearing participants who said, I've never been able to carry on a conversation to say, who are you? How are you? What are you doing here? What brought you here? I love your shirt. 

And to be able to be in real community with each other, and to me, that was the thing that I think guides so much of what we've chosen to do as a project since then around language access, which is not waiting or not saying, we'll have folks there if you need them. But saying, as much as possible, we're going to just have interpretation on every call we can. Right? 

And that way, folks show up when they need to. And they can come and go as they need to without telling us ahead of time, which is something we've never asked of our hearing or English speaking or other participants. So I would just share that and happy to talk about money later, because that's a whole other kind of conversation that I feel like we almost need a follow up for. So yeah. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: Thank you so much, Cat. Kris, I see your hand raised. Please, go ahead. 

KRIS BEIN: Yeah. So I just wanted to add two things. I saw a couple of questions in the Q&A about budget. We've addressed that a little bit. 

And I think the central question about budget that I want you all to leave with is, if you can't afford full language access for your conference, do you have any business putting that conference on? And wouldn't it be better to use that money for something else where you can have full access? And so I just-- yeah. I want to leave you all with that question as you're thinking about budgets. 

The other thing I wanted to note was we have also seen a trend, both for advocates who speak different spoken languages and advocates who are Deaf or hard of hearing that, unfortunately, oftentimes, program leadership will register all their staff for a conference and say like, oh so-and-so doesn't really need an interpreter. They can lip read well enough, or their English is good enough. You don't need to do that, or they just don't tell us that someone has a different native language. 

So I want to say, one, for conference organizers, making language access happen before anyone asks for it is important. But also for all of you who are program directors or coalition leadership, we just have to fix that practice. It's not OK for a hearing person to decide when a Deaf person does or doesn't need an interpreter. 

LIAM ESPOSITO: This is Liam signing. Beautiful points, Kris. Thank you so much for naming that. Nancy, would you like to offer some closing thoughts? 

NANCY SMITH: This is Nancy. I would just add one thing that hasn't been touched on yet today, which is that I remember, at some point in our planning process, we asked ourselves a question which was something along the lines of, if we're successful, and we have a group of Deaf advocates who come to the conference, and we have an amazing interpreting team, and we have interpreters that are available during all of the sessions and in between, what else needs to change to create a meaningful experience and an experience of true learning? 

And through that question, we ended up looking at the programming as well. And so for example, we had a session-- I remember there was a session planned, where participants I think were broken up and sort of encouraged to move throughout the space and sit with other people. And we said, hey, Deaf advocates don't have an opportunity to come together in person that often. 

And also, we know Deaf advocacy, the landscape and the experience is different. Might we want to create the opportunity instead for Deaf advocates to stay together during that learning? And that was just one example. But I think it was really powerful for us to ask ourselves, what else should we shift about the programming to create a meaningful experience? 

LIAM ESPOSITO: Yes, great. Thank you. Thank you so much, Nancy. And we are now at 3:30. And so I'm so sorry. We do have to wrap up now. 

We would like to thank all of you, all of the panelists for being here with us and for being in community with us and for sharing your experiences, especially regarding the SADI conference. Just thank you so much. And we'd like to now ask the audience, if folks wouldn't mind, just go ahead to fill out the brief evaluation that will go ahead and pop up on your screen. 

Once the webinar does end today, we would appreciate you taking a few minutes just to share your thoughts with us, so that we can continue to work to meet your needs. And also as a reminder, the recording of this webinar and transcript will be posted on our-- to our website. So feel free to go ahead and look at that. And also there will be a record of attendance that will be available in the chat as well. 

Thank you again all so much. Have a great, great afternoon. Take care everyone. Thank you.